from freak fighter to lamp lighter

**Frownland** · 09-20-2017, 10:21 PM

More of Marc Ribot? Most definitely.

Listening to the album again, there's a heavy Frith and Otomo Yoshihide influence on there too.

OccultHawk · 09-21-2017, 05:35 AM

You've mentioned some guitarists with mad technical skills including Frith and even McLaughlin. I suppose Eugene Chadbourne is someone in there, too. Let's just take one that we agreed upon: Derek Bailey. This isn't a dis because, hey, I'm comparing you to Derek Bailey, but Bailey was working from a framework of virtuosity and then scaled it back in order to showcase his ideas above his playing. Although your music doesn't feel forced (you know how much I like it) you strike me much more as a musician with a No New York post punk (now many posts later) ethic who's unsatisfied with any sort of limitations. Is it correct to say that your fans can expect change as you continue to grow as a guitarist? And if so, how important is individuality? Also, should we expect your solo work to stay in the realm of the atonal?

**Frownland** · 09-21-2017, 09:10 AM

Well, when I started playing guitar about 15 years ago up until I was 14 or 15, I was a tab reading dork who would play rock, metal and occasionally 12 bar blues. There was a turning point decided to open up my playing and I unlearn the limited penatonic philosophies of the genres I was playing to teach myself a new style that I could call my own. Individuality is important, but I suppose that I give more leeway when a sound is derived from a singular artist like the ones I mentioned.

As for the future, I'm not certain about anything tbh. I think that getting comfortable isn't healthy, so you will likely see change from album to album since I don't want to be in a rut. I'll likely continue to play largely atonal music since that's what gets me off the most, but again, it's hard to say. I just play how my heart beats.

OccultHawk · 09-21-2017, 09:19 AM

I like Jesus the Carpenter more than Wolves in Sheepskin or Noosefiller. I think you're one of those types best off working alone. I'm sure you'll take that with a grain of salt as you should. But how does collaborating compare to working alone?

**Frownland** · 09-21-2017, 09:37 AM

I think it might be that I have a lot more solo recordings to choose from and opportunities to record when I'm compiling a solo album.

I've done collaboration in-person and over the internet, and they're two very disparate animals. Online is a lot more difficult imo as it takes more thought to complement an already-developed side or to lay down the building blocks for them to jump off of. Collaborating in person is tops for me, especially when you're working with people that are willing to improvise whose musical language you can understand. The give and take, the way that an idea can catch fire without warning and fizzle out just as quickly, when you and the person/people you're collaborating with are in line enough that you don't feel like you're in control anymore, the ease in it now that you have help as well as the challenges in keeping up with them, that's what I really love about collaboration. I feel like the relationship in WISSK has caused us to create a new kind of singular beast with flavours that can't be replicated.

Solo work is very rewarding as well. I have control over everything, but I'd say that it's difficult to keep the music and ideas as organic as with collaboration. I think you could say that my solo work is the most refined or matured of my projects.

OccultHawk · 09-21-2017, 11:19 AM

I especially like the song Kerensa. It almost flirts with traditional tonality. It maintains a very clear direction, to me reminiscent of compositions still based around the 12 tone system yet branching out in search of something more expressive. The gentleness of it actually makes me think of "Dee" by Randy Rhodes. I've read that younger musicians, like yourself, are typically unconcerned about choosing sides between tonality and atonality. However, it seems like you reject traditional tonality as a form of expression. Is that a fair characterization of Jesus the Carpenter? If so, is there a concrete reason why or is it less intentional than I imagine?

**Frownland** · 09-21-2017, 12:46 PM

I almost called Kerensa Bridge Hopping II because they're so similar. I agree on the not wanting to choose sides part, because tbh I consider atonality to be a lot more restrictive. People consider atonality to be synonymous with dissonance while that's not true, (so I appreciate you using the term "traditional tonality").

Rejecting traditional tonality is a decent way to put Jesus the Carpenter, but I do think it's a little less intentional than that. The way I see it, dissonance is pretty exciting and has a more dramatic effect, so it's natural for me to fall back on since I find it so attractive. That's not to mention that at this point of my discography, I've released so much that each new album has to carry the discography since people typically check out the most recent offerings from an artist, and I don't want to release something that someone has heard before, so it pushes me towards newer sounds which are generally a little less friendly.

OccultHawk · 09-21-2017, 01:12 PM

How much of Andaman is improvised?

**Frownland** · 09-21-2017, 01:28 PM

Each track has a framework of how I want the song to progress and I go into it with an idea of how I'm going to start it (and in the case of Mulftur, how I will end it), but I leave the rest to improvisation.

OccultHawk · 09-21-2017, 01:48 PM

Alright. Thanks for taking the time to discuss the record with me.

To anyone who might find this confusing Frownland is Jesus the Carpenter and the record we've been discussing is Andaman.

https://jesusthecarpenter.bandcamp.com

https://wolvesinsheepskin.bandcamp.com

https://noosefiller.bandcamp.com/album/noosefiler

09-20-2017, 10:21 PM	#61 (permalink)
Frownland SOPHIE FOREVER Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: East of the Southern North American West Posts: 35,548	More of Marc Ribot? Most definitely. Listening to the album again, there's a heavy Frith and Otomo Yoshihide influence on there too. __________________ Studies show that when a given norm is changed in the face of the unchanging, the remaining contradictions will parallel the truth. d e a f b o x

09-21-2017, 05:35 AM	#62 (permalink)
OccultHawk one-balled nipple jockey Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Dirty Souf Biatch Posts: 22,033	You've mentioned some guitarists with mad technical skills including Frith and even McLaughlin. I suppose Eugene Chadbourne is someone in there, too. Let's just take one that we agreed upon: Derek Bailey. This isn't a dis because, hey, I'm comparing you to Derek Bailey, but Bailey was working from a framework of virtuosity and then scaled it back in order to showcase his ideas above his playing. Although your music doesn't feel forced (you know how much I like it) you strike me much more as a musician with a No New York post punk (now many posts later) ethic who's unsatisfied with any sort of limitations. Is it correct to say that your fans can expect change as you continue to grow as a guitarist? And if so, how important is individuality? Also, should we expect your solo work to stay in the realm of the atonal? __________________ 2016 2017 2018 2019 2020 Member of the Year & Journal of the Year Champion Behold the Writing of THE LEGEND: https://www.musicbanter.com/members-...p-lighter.html

09-21-2017, 09:10 AM	#63 (permalink)
Frownland SOPHIE FOREVER Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: East of the Southern North American West Posts: 35,548	Well, when I started playing guitar about 15 years ago up until I was 14 or 15, I was a tab reading dork who would play rock, metal and occasionally 12 bar blues. There was a turning point decided to open up my playing and I unlearn the limited penatonic philosophies of the genres I was playing to teach myself a new style that I could call my own. Individuality is important, but I suppose that I give more leeway when a sound is derived from a singular artist like the ones I mentioned. As for the future, I'm not certain about anything tbh. I think that getting comfortable isn't healthy, so you will likely see change from album to album since I don't want to be in a rut. I'll likely continue to play largely atonal music since that's what gets me off the most, but again, it's hard to say. I just play how my heart beats. __________________ Studies show that when a given norm is changed in the face of the unchanging, the remaining contradictions will parallel the truth. d e a f b o x

09-21-2017, 09:19 AM	#64 (permalink)
OccultHawk one-balled nipple jockey Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Dirty Souf Biatch Posts: 22,033	I like Jesus the Carpenter more than Wolves in Sheepskin or Noosefiller. I think you're one of those types best off working alone. I'm sure you'll take that with a grain of salt as you should. But how does collaborating compare to working alone? __________________ 2016 2017 2018 2019 2020 Member of the Year & Journal of the Year Champion Behold the Writing of THE LEGEND: https://www.musicbanter.com/members-...p-lighter.html

09-21-2017, 09:37 AM	#65 (permalink)
Frownland SOPHIE FOREVER Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: East of the Southern North American West Posts: 35,548	I think it might be that I have a lot more solo recordings to choose from and opportunities to record when I'm compiling a solo album. I've done collaboration in-person and over the internet, and they're two very disparate animals. Online is a lot more difficult imo as it takes more thought to complement an already-developed side or to lay down the building blocks for them to jump off of. Collaborating in person is tops for me, especially when you're working with people that are willing to improvise whose musical language you can understand. The give and take, the way that an idea can catch fire without warning and fizzle out just as quickly, when you and the person/people you're collaborating with are in line enough that you don't feel like you're in control anymore, the ease in it now that you have help as well as the challenges in keeping up with them, that's what I really love about collaboration. I feel like the relationship in WISSK has caused us to create a new kind of singular beast with flavours that can't be replicated. Solo work is very rewarding as well. I have control over everything, but I'd say that it's difficult to keep the music and ideas as organic as with collaboration. I think you could say that my solo work is the most refined or matured of my projects. __________________ Studies show that when a given norm is changed in the face of the unchanging, the remaining contradictions will parallel the truth. d e a f b o x

09-21-2017, 11:19 AM	#66 (permalink)
OccultHawk one-balled nipple jockey Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Dirty Souf Biatch Posts: 22,033	I especially like the song Kerensa. It almost flirts with traditional tonality. It maintains a very clear direction, to me reminiscent of compositions still based around the 12 tone system yet branching out in search of something more expressive. The gentleness of it actually makes me think of "Dee" by Randy Rhodes. I've read that younger musicians, like yourself, are typically unconcerned about choosing sides between tonality and atonality. However, it seems like you reject traditional tonality as a form of expression. Is that a fair characterization of Jesus the Carpenter? If so, is there a concrete reason why or is it less intentional than I imagine? __________________ 2016 2017 2018 2019 2020 Member of the Year & Journal of the Year Champion Behold the Writing of THE LEGEND: https://www.musicbanter.com/members-...p-lighter.html

09-21-2017, 12:46 PM	#67 (permalink)
Frownland SOPHIE FOREVER Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: East of the Southern North American West Posts: 35,548	I almost called Kerensa Bridge Hopping II because they're so similar. I agree on the not wanting to choose sides part, because tbh I consider atonality to be a lot more restrictive. People consider atonality to be synonymous with dissonance while that's not true, (so I appreciate you using the term "traditional tonality"). Rejecting traditional tonality is a decent way to put Jesus the Carpenter, but I do think it's a little less intentional than that. The way I see it, dissonance is pretty exciting and has a more dramatic effect, so it's natural for me to fall back on since I find it so attractive. That's not to mention that at this point of my discography, I've released so much that each new album has to carry the discography since people typically check out the most recent offerings from an artist, and I don't want to release something that someone has heard before, so it pushes me towards newer sounds which are generally a little less friendly. __________________ Studies show that when a given norm is changed in the face of the unchanging, the remaining contradictions will parallel the truth. d e a f b o x

09-21-2017, 01:12 PM	#68 (permalink)
OccultHawk one-balled nipple jockey Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Dirty Souf Biatch Posts: 22,033	How much of Andaman is improvised? __________________ 2016 2017 2018 2019 2020 Member of the Year & Journal of the Year Champion Behold the Writing of THE LEGEND: https://www.musicbanter.com/members-...p-lighter.html

09-21-2017, 01:28 PM	#69 (permalink)
Frownland SOPHIE FOREVER Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: East of the Southern North American West Posts: 35,548	Each track has a framework of how I want the song to progress and I go into it with an idea of how I'm going to start it (and in the case of Mulftur, how I will end it), but I leave the rest to improvisation. __________________ Studies show that when a given norm is changed in the face of the unchanging, the remaining contradictions will parallel the truth. d e a f b o x

09-21-2017, 01:48 PM	#70 (permalink)
OccultHawk one-balled nipple jockey Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Dirty Souf Biatch Posts: 22,033	Alright. Thanks for taking the time to discuss the record with me. To anyone who might find this confusing Frownland is Jesus the Carpenter and the record we've been discussing is Andaman. https://jesusthecarpenter.bandcamp.com https://wolvesinsheepskin.bandcamp.com https://noosefiller.bandcamp.com/album/noosefiler __________________ 2016 2017 2018 2019 2020 Member of the Year & Journal of the Year Champion Behold the Writing of THE LEGEND: https://www.musicbanter.com/members-...p-lighter.html