Madonna VS Lady GaGa

~~Sansa Stark~~ · 06-23-2013, 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djchameleon

I'm going to have to go all stan mode but why does she have to be a bisexual out in public? If she claims to be one then it's her choice whether she wants to do it out in public or behind closed doors. It's almost like you are dragging her out and she has to prove herself to you? Come on now. I thought you'd be more sensitive to issues like that even if it's someone you don't like. Just let her be who the fuck she is without having to define how she should live her life.

As far as her health issues are concerned, she's not perfect but she takes her craft serious enough that sometimes she will abuse her body in the process and it's something that she has to learn over time. She's still young.

She doesn't have to prove anything to anyone but she does claim to be a gay icon and care about LGBTQ+ rights but no one I know thinks she's a gay icon. I think gay people should be able to pick their own icons, don't you? It's offensive and because you (from my knowledge) are a straight male, you can't exactly see where I'm coming from, but you might be able to empathise slightly. If she is a gay icon as she claims then she should be publicly dating women or be more open about it since the community in general has a biphobia problem, I know this being pansexual myself because apparently I don't really exist, neither do bisexuals since oh there can only be two genders and god forbid you want to date or **** one for one period of time. Being all hyperdefensive about an issue that doesn't affect you is also pretty ignorant and insulting to me. She KNOWS it's important, so either she doesn't care or she is using us to further her own agendas, because oh look she can publicly be like OH I GOT DADT REPEALED (no). So please, hop off my dick about LGBTQ+ issues because I'm pretty sure I know more about it than you do.

I don't particularly care about her health either, but everyone knew Born This Way was pretty awful compared to The Fame and the Fame Monster, so unless ARTPOP is good she's going to end up being a flop. Not to mention she culturally appropriated a burkha and sexualised it when Muslim/women of colour are already treated as exotic sex objects and she is not Muslim so that is even worse and more disgusting to witness. She has zero respect for any one else's culture besides her own and appropriates to her will and want. Madonna does the same which is not forgiveable either but Lady Gaga should know better, or at least listen when people call her out on it. Same with Madonna and that Malawi bull****.

djchameleon · 06-23-2013, 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hermione

She doesn't have to prove anything to anyone but she does claim to be a gay icon and care about LGBTQ+ rights but no one I know thinks she's a gay icon. I think gay people should be able to pick their own icons, don't you? It's offensive and because you (from my knowledge) are a straight male, you can't exactly see where I'm coming from, but you might be able to empathise slightly. If she is a gay icon as she claims then she should be publicly dating women or be more open about it since the community in general has a biphobia problem, I know this being pansexual myself because apparently I don't really exist, neither do bisexuals since oh there can only be two genders and god forbid you want to date or **** one for one period of time. Being all hyperdefensive about an issue that doesn't affect you is also pretty ignorant and insulting to me.

I agree with the bolded part but I just don't agree with forcing her to publicly date women. It's like saying that being supportive and caring about LBGTQ rights isn't enough and she has to do more but you are right it's your decision to claim if you feel she's worthy of being a gay icon or not.

~~Sansa Stark~~ · 06-23-2013, 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djchameleon

I agree with the bolded part but I just don't agree with forcing her to publicly date women. It's like saying that being supportive and caring about LBGTQ rights isn't enough and she has to do more but you are right it's your decision to claim if you feel she's worthy of being a gay icon or not.

She's not my gay icon, I'm a tranny prostitute remember lmao. I agree she shouldn't have to, but she's the one who claims to care about LGBTQ+ rights so much so she should be aware of the issues of biphobia/pansexualphobia in our community, because we have no real visibility in the media because everyone likes to think we are either just really gay or lying for attention. It's a huge problem for us and it is erasing of our sexual orientations and gender identities to try to define our sexualities for anyone but ourselves. I don't actually care about what she wants to define her sexuality as but we are not playthings and objects for this kinda thing. We don't need that in the community. As long as she respects that, I don't care if she calls herself a Unicorn Princess. If she cannot respect the community of gender and sexual minorities then she is not a gay icon at all, but an oppressor.

sopsych · 06-23-2013, 10:05 AM

For the record, I agree with the mods - clogging threads up with images is not okay.

The bedroom picture illustrates what a disgusting person is Madonna, and she's been a terrible role model for females. However, in my opinion this is only a music comparison. Because Madonna hasn't made more than a few good songs since the mid-90's ("Beautiful Stranger" is the best), people forget her prime and hence think that Lady Gaga might be at her level.

djchameleon · 06-23-2013, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hermione

She's not my gay icon, I'm a tranny prostitute remember lmao. I agree she shouldn't have to, but she's the one who claims to care about LGBTQ+ rights so much so she should be aware of the issues of biphobia/pansexualphobia in our community, because we have no real visibility in the media because everyone likes to think we are either just really gay or lying for attention. It's a huge problem for us and it is erasing of our sexual orientations and gender identities to try to define our sexualities for anyone but ourselves. I don't actually care about what she wants to define her sexuality as but we are not playthings and objects for this kinda thing. We don't need that in the community. As long as she respects that, I don't care if she calls herself a Unicorn Princess. If she cannot respect the community of gender and sexual minorities then she is not a gay icon at all, but an oppressor.

I agree. If I could arrange a sit down between you and Gaga to explain that to her. I'd love to hear what her response to that statement would be. Well the whole thing not just the bolded.

Urban Hat€monger ? · 06-23-2013, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djchameleon

I agree. If I could arrange a sit down between you and Gaga to explain that to her. I'd love to hear what her response to that statement would be.

~~Sansa Stark~~ · 06-23-2013, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djchameleon

I agree. If I could arrange a sit down between you and Gaga to explain that to her. I'd love to hear what her response to that statement would be. Well the whole thing not just the bolded.

Fuck that I'd just steal her handbag and run off. She's been called out on her bullshit many times but is too selfish and entitled that she feels she's beyond~~~~ race and gender and religion, so she can just appropriate whatever she wants because she claims it's PERFORMANCE ART. Puh-lease! I mean, sure she dressed up as "Jo Calderone" or whatever but what the fuck does that even matter? The t of LGBTQ+ is so ignored by the community she should be using her position and power as an "icon" to bring attention to that issue and motivate people to do things to change. Does she ever talk about trans issues rather than just playing dress up? I have NEVER heard her bring attention to those issues, so clearly she is only thinking of herself and frankly her downward spiral into obscurity is painful and embarrassing to witness.

Trans* people are not her commodity to do what she wants with, we are human beings and especially she should be knowledgeable against the violence and murder and rape that trans* people are threatened with and have used upon them constantly or she is NOTHING to the LGBTQ+ community. Just another worthless pop-tart with a few good hooks and a cache of old Bowie records and some fancy nipple pasties. No thanks!!!

djchameleon · 06-23-2013, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hermione

Fuck that I'd just steal her handbag and run off. She's been called out on her bullshit many times but is too selfish and entitled that she feels she's beyond~~~~ race and gender and religion, so she can just appropriate whatever she wants because she claims it's PERFORMANCE ART. Puh-lease! I mean, sure she dressed up as "Jo Calderone" or whatever but what the fuck does that even matter? The t of LGBTQ+ is so ignored by the community she should be using her position and power as an "icon" to bring attention to that issue and motivate people to do things to change. Does she ever talk about trans issues rather than just playing dress up? I have NEVER heard her bring attention to those issues, so clearly she is only thinking of herself and frankly her downward spiral into obscurity is painful and embarrassing to witness.

Trans* people are not her commodity to do what she wants with, we are human beings and especially she should be knowledgeable against the violence and murder and rape that trans* people are threatened with and have used upon them constantly or she is NOTHING to the LGBTQ+ community. Just another worthless pop-tart with a few good hooks and a cache of old Bowie records and some fancy nipple pasties. No thanks!!!

Hold up wait a min. She's an advocate for gays and lesbians but because she doesn't or hasn't yet touched on the growing trans issue. Then she's not a proper advocate? It's like you are picking and choosing what she should advocate for. In your eyes anyone that is supportive of say gay marriage rights but hasn't mentioned anything trans related isn't an advocate then? We will have to agree to disagree on her level of selfishness because I don't believe she's like that at all.

~~Sansa Stark~~ · 06-23-2013, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djchameleon

Hold up wait a min. She's an advocate for gays and lesbians but because she doesn't or hasn't yet touched on the growing trans issue. Then she's not a proper advocate? It's like you are picking and choosing what she should advocate for. In your eyes anyone that is supportive of say gay marriage rights but hasn't mentioned anything trans related isn't an advocate then? We will have to agree to disagree on her level of selfishness because I don't believe she's like that at all.

No, you can't really pick and choose who you advocate for, at all, especially when trans* visibility is at an all time low. There are other parts of LGBTQ+ and she should be helping the more **** upon part of it. I mean seriously do you have any idea how often trans* people are murdered or raped or left homeless, bullied in school? Wouldn't you say that's a more pressing issue rather than just marriage? This is actual lives at stake here. You can't pick and choose the easier route if you want to say you're doing so much for the community,which she does, often and loudly.

Honestly I don't care if you disagree with me but http://www.patheos.com/blogs/wwjtd/2...gender-people/

Look for yourself. If 1 in 6 women will be raped or sexually assaulted in their lifetimes, how many of those will be trans women? It's a big ****ing deal. Opinions are fine, ya know, but this is a fact here so I have to stick by my opinion

CrazyVegn · 06-23-2013, 12:31 PM

What It Feels Like for a Girl and Don't Tell Me are cool too...
I think both of these artists do publicity stunts that appeal to a target market. LBTQ who feel largely misunderstood suddenly feel understood by one of the biggest names in the world; Madonna. There is some quick cash...
Both are equally terrible role models for girls but who says they must be role models? That's not what they are supposed to be about.

View Poll Results: Madonna or Lady GaGa
Lady GaGa	27	35.53%
Madonna	40	52.63%
Other	9	11.84%
Voters: 76. You may not vote on this poll

06-23-2013, 10:05 AM	#54 (permalink)
sopsych Music Addict Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: indoors Posts: 722	For the record, I agree with the mods - clogging threads up with images is not okay. The bedroom picture illustrates what a disgusting person is Madonna, and she's been a terrible role model for females. However, in my opinion this is only a music comparison. Because Madonna hasn't made more than a few good songs since the mid-90's ("Beautiful Stranger" is the best), people forget her prime and hence think that Lady Gaga might be at her level. __________________ If you have ideas or feedback for the site, visit The Musicbanter Improvement Thread.

06-23-2013, 12:31 PM	#60 (permalink)
CrazyVegn Left due to ban epidemic Join Date: Mar 2013 Posts: 498	What It Feels Like for a Girl and Don't Tell Me are cool too... I think both of these artists do publicity stunts that appeal to a target market. LBTQ who feel largely misunderstood suddenly feel understood by one of the biggest names in the world; Madonna. There is some quick cash... Both are equally terrible role models for girls but who says they must be role models? That's not what they are supposed to be about.