Don

No wonder you don't find DT all that progressive, you think Radiohead and The Mars Volta are progressive. Sorry to tell you but you seem to have prog rock mixed up with experimental rock. Radiohead and The Mars Volta are experimental rock and not the least bit progressive - according to me and every other music critic I have ever corresponded with.


Funny you say that, because I find them to be the best progressive metal band. And are you saying you've heard every single signed prog metal band in the world?
I don't know how you could say they're not original if you've heard songs like "The Great Debate" or "Misunderstood," for example.


Just about every single Tool song creates the exact same moods by employing uninteresting styles and phrases. There is nothing original about Tool. Their use of boring chord progressions and mediocre melodies are far from original. And I've previously spoken about their so called "original lyrics."

You talk about how DT steal ideas from old prog bands, but did the obvious ever occur to you? That every single modern band (and every musician while we're here) has "stolen" something from other bands (or music). DT have found a way to compose music which has been obviously influenced by many of their favourite bands but at the same time made it their own by never repeating their sound. DT don't even have a trademark sound because each of their albums are so distinct. And as for Symphony X, you do know that their V album (music and concept) was admittedly to be pretty much stolen directly from DT's Scenes From a Memory, don't you?

I know someone else who needs to not only be shot (for thinking The Mars Volta are progressive) but injected with a slow acting virus causing irrefutable pain.

Don

I envy you. Please go run and buy Scenes From a Memory. Oh and by the way I hope you didn't vote 'cause that would have been naughty of you.

boo boo

Progressive Rock IS Experiemental Rock, dumbass.

What Critics?...Your elitist buddys?



No i havent heard them all.

But i have heard a good deal of progressive metal, and theres certainly more original bands out there, you obviously havent heard these bands if you think DT even compares, stop lying to yourself...DT are NOT original, i have listened to enough 70s prog to know where DT get their ideas from.


Oh yeah, you call Tool unoriginal, uninteresting, boring and pretentious and yet YOU LIKE DREAM THEATER???

I sense a little fanboism, im sure i am not alone on this.

If Tool are so unoriginal, you should at least name me one band who sounded like Tool before Tool.

True, but DT dont just steal, they copy, hell, there were times when i got them confused with Styx and Saga...And their instrumentals are often taken from the books of Rush and ELP, if you ever listened to these bands, you would realise that DT are merely copying their style, and they are incapable of improving upon the old styles they so love to beat to death.

You have the whole concept of progressive rock wrong, its about being PROGRESSIVE, ripping off old progressive bands dosent make YOU progressive, its about doing something different, which is what seperates Radiohead and Mars Volta from Dream Theater. This was the whole prog philosophy in the 70s, most progressive bands from that era stood out from each other, they didnt try to imitate each other, they did their own thing instead...Thats what being progressive is all about.

Also V is probably Symphony X's worst album, way to go on that one.

Among Mars Voltas biggest influences are Yes, Pink Floyd, Rush and King Crimson...How in the hell are they not prog?...They have most of the progressive elements (check the prog education thread) that i have already named and yet they are still pretty original.

I dont mean to boast, but i know more about progressive rock than you, WHY?...Because im Dr. Prog dammit.

__________________
It's only knock n' knowall, but I like it

http://www.last.fm/user/kingboobs

Don

Incorrect. Do some research please, because I ain't explaining it. They are completely different styles.

Yes, okay then.

Mate, music is my living, so unless it's yours, I doubt you've heard more prog metal than me

I never said there wasn't.

Only one? Okay: Katatonia.

Yes, I already said DT cite their influences, what's wrong with that? And "YTSE Jam" is the only instrumental taken from Rush or ELP. It was meant to be a tribute to Rush's "YYZ."

I'm sorry, but they aren't prog, no matter what you think or believe.

I didn't realise you were so egotistical. Actually, the majority of Symphony X fans (from what I've gathered so far) feel that V is their greatest album.

I really doubt that...Judging by the whole experimental rock = prog rock thing.

boo boo

Katatonia?...I heard them, nice try...And most Symphony X fans consider DWOT the best.

Experiemental rock for one thing, is only a term, theres no real experiemental rock genre, style or movement, its only used to discribe unconventional styles of rock, mainly Avant Garde and Progressive Rock....And sometimes Alternative Rock.

Radiohead and Mars Volta have a good amount of prog elements...Odd time signatures and scales, lengthy compositions, unconventional arangements, obscure lyrics, consistant themes and concepts, innovative instrumentation, unusual vocals, songs that dont conform to verse-chorus-verse structures...And thats barely scratching the surface...Sure the masse's may say otherwise, but then again these are the same guys who think Sum41 are punk rock, dont always go by what the critics and elitists tell you

And if you want to make a valid arguement, you will have to do better than "you're wrong", "incorrect", "nope" and "yeah right".

__________________
It's only knock n' knowall, but I like it

http://www.last.fm/user/kingboobs

Don

First, there's no argument because I already said I've yet to meet a musician who consider Mars Volta or Radiohead to be progessive. So you can't argue that fact.

So I did say "Incorrect" but I don't believe I said the others.

What do you mean by nice try with Katatonia? And where did you get your information from, regarding TDWoT being the fan's favoured album?

Experimental rock is a style. Look it up.

boo boo

Well gee, you know musicians, that must make you special.

Im a musician, how about you?

I know musicians too, who would back me on this arguement, its about the people you know.

You are not even trying to back up your opinions with valid reasoning...And FYI mentioning other peoples subjective opinions isnt a credible way to win a arguement.

You are going by the opinions of others, im going by my own, and because im very positive that i have heard more progressive rock bands than you ever will, it gives my opinions at least some validation.

__________________
It's only knock n' knowall, but I like it

http://www.last.fm/user/kingboobs

Don

You don't have to make this personal. So is music your profession? Do you get paid for writing endless articles about endless amounts of bands? Because I do, so maybe my "opinion" has some validity as well. But there is no opinion as far as I'm concerned, because Mars Volta aren't considered to be prog, it's just fact. If you think they are then okay, but it doesn't change this fact. What dampens the validity of your opinions is the amount of spelling and grammatical errors you make.
I just estimated the amount of prog rock I have on my computer and it's about 40 gbs. And that's only the prog bands I enjoy, so it doesn't include the **** load of cds I have.

Yes, I know. That's because it's just something I believe to be fact. And I guess I don't need to explain something that I believe to be fact. I believe you're wrong, so I don't care for explaining why this is the case. Had it been something more subjective in nature, I would be happy to properly argue with you, believe me.

Yes. My instruments are Piano, Trumpet, Saxophone, Guitar, Drums. All up about 15 years. Actually I've been playing the piano for 21 years.

boo boo

I dont believe you, on anything you just said....If you can prove me wrong, all i need is some of your music clips, or links to whatever you do articles for.

My opinion isnt valid because of my grammar?...That would be true if we were actualy having a debate about grammar, but we are not...So, does this mean spelling Kurt Cobain as "Kurt Kobain" takes away some of your credibility points?

Most people on this forum probably do have large CD collections, i know i do, im probably the only person to own boxsets from both Nirvana and Hank Williams...So dont boast about it like it makes you different.

And what facts??...THERE IS NO FACT THAT STATES THAT MARS VOLTA ARENT PROG, in fact, most prog sites list them as a prog band, observe.

http://www.progarchives.com/Progress...T.asp?letter=m

This happens to be the most popular prog site there is, with a very active forum, of which i am a member...Sure you will say they dont count for no reason whatsoever, so eat your heart out...There are many people who DO think Mars Volta are prog, and you are only counting the opinions of people who share your views, which is only a small portion of a much larger demographic...Shows how open minded you are.

__________________
It's only knock n' knowall, but I like it

http://www.last.fm/user/kingboobs

Don

Actually I said dampen your validity. And the example you gave was one of spelling error. You said "a argument" earlier. And this dampens the validity of your opinions because it makes you look like you're about 10 years old.


Yes I'm obviously aware of that site and that many people call them prog. I'm saying it's fact that I regard them as not being prog. You don't have to insult me. And I would be willing to show you some of my articles. I write for various magazines and for allmusic.com. But you're being too childish and make far too many generalisations in your writing. I won't respond to you any further. It's just music, please settle down. You're winning on this poll, so I guess you win this 'argument' then.