Frank Zappa Appreciation Thread

[Frownland]

Originally Posted by Terrapin_Station

"Critical" doesn't mean "negative." It implies analysis.

Where did I say that criticism and negativity are the same? I simply said you were being uncritical.

[Terrapin_Station]

Originally Posted by Guybrush

You can probably imagine that as a Zappa fan, I've had this discussion before. Both with other people and in my own brain for a long time. I've been on your side of the discussion for years and years.

Learning more about misogyny and becoming more aware of it is an important part of what's brought me to my current position on the issue. I believe I see something that you're probably blind to and discussing here isn't likely to change that.

Maybe you should ask your wife about it.

This has nothing to do with Zappa, but in general, my view is that misogyny, racism, etc. are attributed all over the place where it makes no sense to do so. My views about this have much more to do with my general philosophical views, especially my views about how meaning works, how interpretation works, etc.

Originally Posted by Frownland

Where did I say that criticism and negativity are the same? I simply said you were being uncritical.

So to reason this out for you, since I was saying something a la analysis, it made no sense to say that I wasn't being critical unless you had in mind that that would require a negative assessment.

[Frownland]

Originally Posted by Terrapin_Station

So to reason this out for you, since I was saying something a la analysis, it made no sense to say that I wasn't being critical unless you had in mind that that would require a negative assessment.

So even if I don't explicitly say that criticism is negative, it's still something that can quickly be inferred from the context of what was said?

I wonder if there's anything else that operates like that. Something discussed in this thread, even.

[Terrapin_Station]

Originally Posted by Frownland

So even if I don't explicitly say that criticism is negative, it's still something that can quickly be inferred from the context of what was said?

Yes. Otherwise it would make no sense as a response to what I said.

[Frownland]

Way to miss my point.

Your analysis is dishonest because it's based on the assumption that sexism can only exist within an explicit denouncement along the lines of "women are inferior" as opposed to trends with clear implications. Your only "analysis" is simply the parroting one dictionary's definition.

Frankly (hehe) you'd have to be blinded by fanboyism or your own sexism not to see it in Zappa's music.

[jadis]

Originally Posted by Terrapin_Station

I'm not at all a fan of continentalism, and I'm a physicalist, so . . . lol

Concepts are physical things in particular brains in my view.

Haha yeah I'm used to coming up against this wall - or others coming up against my wall - in philosophy circles. Let's say I've been the beneficiary of the "well, if we absolutely must have some random adjunct teach to our students the incomprehensible verbal diarrhea of those weird, nihilistic, godawful French homosexuals who have no interest in The Truth and Universal Logick, let us then get one of them clowns from lit studies, who had chunks on Foucault in his PhD on the likes of Blanchot and Klossowski and who reads all that garbage in the original. He regards all philosophy as no more than literature anyway, his view of language is derived from Benveniste and Barthes, not Frege and Quine, which will show our students how intellectually unserious he is, and they'll regret ever demanding courses on Foucault and come around to the sound ways" attitude...

[jadis]

sexist

What's wrong with being sexy?

[Frownland]

And who the hell doesn't love a good misog?

[Terrapin_Station]

Originally Posted by Frownland

Way to miss my point.

Your analysis is dishonest because it's based on the assumption that sexism can only exist within an explicit denouncement along the lines of "women are inferior" as opposed to trends with clear implications. Your only "analysis" is simply the parroting one dictionary's definition.

Frankly (hehe) you'd have to be blinded by fanboyism or your own sexism not to see it in Zappa's music.

Can you give the definition of "sexism" you'd be using?

Originally Posted by jadis

Haha yeah I'm used to coming up against this wall - or others coming up against my wall - in philosophy circles. Let's say I've been the beneficiary of the "well, if we absolutely must have some random adjunct teach to our students the incomprehensible verbal diarrhea of those weird, nihilistic, godawful French homosexuals who have no interest in The Truth and Universal Logick, let us then get one of them clowns from lit studies, who had chunks on Foucault in his PhD on the likes of Blanchot and Klossowski and who reads all that garbage in the original. He regards all philosophy as no more than literature anyway, his view of language is derived from Benveniste and Barthes, not Frege and Quine, which will show our students how intellectually unserious he is, and they'll regret ever demanding courses on Foucault and come around to the sound ways" attitude...

Right . . . although not that I'm a Frege fan, either.

[Frownland]

Originally Posted by Terrapin_Station

Can you give the definition of "sexism" you'd be using?

You can keep your unnuanced blanket definitions. In Zappa's case, the sexism/misogyny comes in the form of lyrically affirming traditional demeaning roles of either being childlike, sex objects, or quite often both to the point of being a prejudice.