Marillion (and maybe Fish) --- your thoughts?

Trollheart · 06-06-2012, 04:07 AM

A lot of people hate Marillion, firstly for being (somewhat deservedly, at least in the beginning) a bit of a Genesis clone for the eighties, and later the Fish/Hogarth schism developed, setting some Marillion fans at each other's throats in a real Ozzy/Dio way.

Personally, I loved Marillion from day one, when I heard "Market square heroes" and later bought "Script for a jester's tear" (although I was initially disappointed the former was not on the latter) and followed them through many changes, musically as well as personnel, but I've never lost my love for or appreciation of this band. I think they did a huge amount to reinvigorate and revitalise prog rock in the 80s, and see them as one of the most important in the vanguard of what could possibly be thought of as the NWOBPR, maybe.

When Fish left I thought it was all over, but soon got into Hogarth's different style, and as albums to reassure fans after "Clutching at straws" saw Fish perform his swansong with the band, I think "Seasons end" and "Holidays in Eden" worked really well. The musical direction did not really start to change all that much until later, and "Splintering heart", "The king of sunset town" and the title to "Seasons end" still stand as great prog rock songs for me, while the triplet of "This town/The rake's progress/100 nights" that closes "Holidays in Eden" is still one of the best post-Fish compositions from Marillion.

After this they released their second concept album (third if you include "Clutching") in the exceptional "Brave", which I believe showed once and for all that Hogarth was his own man, not content to hang on the rapidly-disappearing coattails of the previous frontman, and he with the band created a true masterpiece to rival even "Misplaced childhood".

Recently Marillion have moved somewhat away from their progressive rock roots, and in truth we'll never hear songs the calibre of "Script", "Forgotten sons", "Grendel" or "Emerald lies" again, but I still think Marillion remain a potent force in prog rock, if for nothing else than as an inspiration for new bands who are only just getting to grips with the prog rock principles.

Fish, on the other hand, has remained true to his original vision for Marillion in his solo work, releasing some amazing albums, one of the best of which in my opinion is "Raingods with zippos", but his catalogue has been a little hit and miss. "Suits" had some great songs, as had "Sunsets on empire", but there was some filler, whereas "Fellini days" I find more than a little hard to really get into. I enjoyed "Field of crows" immensely, and am looking forward to his latest effort.

Whether it's Marillion with Fish or Hogarth, Fish on his own or the likes of Transatlantic, The Wishing Tree or the H Band, I'll always be a fan of anything to do with Marillion. For me, they really introduced me to "modern" progressive rock, music I thought could only be played by "older" bands from the 60s and 70s, and helped to not only keep prog rock alive, but to flourish and grow, passing the baton to a whole new batch of hopefuls.

Anyone care to comment?

FETCHER. · 06-06-2012, 05:46 AM

Personally I hate Marillion, ever since I've been able to introduce myself some smart bastard has always decided to sing "Kayleigh" to me. Like I haven't heard it before. Asking if I was named after it and stuff. No, Kayleigh is a traditional name.

Howard the Duck · 06-06-2012, 08:02 AM

^^i remember posting a vid of it as soon as i knew your real name

as for Marillion, i am a huge fan of "Misplaced Childhood"

i haven't ventured beyond that, i only have "Fugazi" which was only alrite, like a less developed MC, still has a few good songs ("Punch & Judy", "Assassing")

Trollheart · 06-06-2012, 09:35 AM

I of course find it hard to believe that anyone hates Marillion, but then I suppose not everyone will love them. Kay, try to get past the smart gits singing to you and have a listen to these (2 Fish era, 2 Hogarth)
Emerald lies, from "Fugazi"

White Russian, from "Clutching at straws"

Dry land, from "Holidays in Eden"

Afraid of sunlight, title track

Howard, you really need to listen to "Script", Marillion's debut and still their best. This is the title track.

Oh, and here's their epic "Grendel". Yeah, seventeen minutes. Hell of a song.

Not trying to force Marillion down your throats, guys, but maybe give them a chance?

FETCHER. · 06-06-2012, 02:12 PM

I'll have a listen when I get on the computer

.

Unknown Soldier · 06-08-2012, 02:53 PM

Fugazi is a great album , I never tire of it and prefer it over both the debut and Misplaced Childhood their most famous release.

Urban Hat€monger ? · 06-09-2012, 05:57 AM

Marillion were the first band I ever saw live, and I thought they were awful.

I saw them sometime around early 1988 so I'm guessing it would have been one of Fish's last gigs with the band, I actually met him in the mens toilets a couple of hours before the gig and he seemed like a nice enough guy. Because my mother worked at the venue I was able to get hold of a really cheap discounted ticket for both myself and my friend Phil , who was a massive fan of theirs.

Actually the thing I remember the most about the gig was the support act who were a local band called 'Unique' who comprised of a big fat bald bastard in white face paint covering his whole head and great big black circles around his eyes like some cheap Leigh Bowrey knock off on lead vocals and 2 rejects from Sigue Sigue Sputnik backing him up on synths.
I seem to remember them having a song called 'Inch Man' which was probably about a penis or something.

Marillion came on, everybody waited to hear their 3 singles and then fucked off.

~~James~~ · 06-09-2012, 06:22 AM

Worst album art of any band ever. So much cheese.

Trollheart · 06-09-2012, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by James

Worst album art of any band ever. So much cheese.

I absolutely disagree. Marillion, at least for the first four albums, were trying to recapture the sort of art that characterised album covers of early prog acts in the seventies and before. Their covers always told a story, were beautifully drawn and always, imo, added to the overall experience you got from the album. They also follow a story, as detailed somewhat in my first "Secret life of the album cover" feature in my journal.

Debut: "Script for a jester's tear" shows essentially an artist struggling with his songs/writing, wishing he could show the world how talented he is but being ignored. There's lots of imagery on the cover to support this, not least the sad face of the jester, who would become Marillion's sigil for four albums, almost.

Second album: "Fugazi" shows the jester having achieved fame but still dogged by the doubts, fears, uncertainties and expectations which haunted him on the debut. Now he's famous, his music is known, but is he happy? Stretched out on a bed in a lonely bedsit, drunk and possibly drugged, he's far from happy. Moral: money does not buy happiness (short version: for a more in-depth analysis see my journal).

Third album: "Misplaced childhood". The last to feature the full jester, the album cover is actually taken over by the child who represents the title, and the jester is seen escaping out the window: time to give up childish things?

Fourth album, last with Fish: "Clutching at straws". A concept album based loosely around the idea of alcoholism, the cover shows a man standing at the end of a bar, looking totally dejected and lost, the only sign of the jester the cap protruding from his pocket.

After this, with the departure of Fish as lead vocalist, Mark Wilkinson, who created the art for the first two albums, would go with him and work on his solo albums, and Marillion would adopt a more "modern" approach to sleeve art, varying it with little or no connection between each cover over the years.

To call Marillion's album covers cheesy is to deny the thought and the hard work that went into creating them. If you want to call them cheesy, then all the Yes, Rush, Asia, Zep, and a hundred other prog rock artists albums have to be accused of this as well.

Album art is a dying, erm, art, and I think it was great to see Marillion trying to keep it alive during the eighties.

Anteater · 06-15-2012, 10:43 PM

When I was a wee lad, I was more of a fan of the above four album run as far as Marillion went, and completely disregarded everything Steve Hogarth did with the band without really giving his era with 'em the time it deserved.

Over the last while though, I've become better acquainted with their post-Fish output, so much so in fact that I can assert that Seasons End may be my favorite Marillion album overall, and Afraid Of Sunlight and Marbles aren't too far behind it either.

It doesn't hurt that both 'The King Of Sunset Town' and 'Easter' are catchy as hell either!

06-06-2012, 04:07 AM	#1 (permalink)
Trollheart Born to be mild Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: 404 Not Found Posts: 26,970	Marillion (and maybe Fish) --- your thoughts? A lot of people hate Marillion, firstly for being (somewhat deservedly, at least in the beginning) a bit of a Genesis clone for the eighties, and later the Fish/Hogarth schism developed, setting some Marillion fans at each other's throats in a real Ozzy/Dio way. Personally, I loved Marillion from day one, when I heard "Market square heroes" and later bought "Script for a jester's tear" (although I was initially disappointed the former was not on the latter) and followed them through many changes, musically as well as personnel, but I've never lost my love for or appreciation of this band. I think they did a huge amount to reinvigorate and revitalise prog rock in the 80s, and see them as one of the most important in the vanguard of what could possibly be thought of as the NWOBPR, maybe. When Fish left I thought it was all over, but soon got into Hogarth's different style, and as albums to reassure fans after "Clutching at straws" saw Fish perform his swansong with the band, I think "Seasons end" and "Holidays in Eden" worked really well. The musical direction did not really start to change all that much until later, and "Splintering heart", "The king of sunset town" and the title to "Seasons end" still stand as great prog rock songs for me, while the triplet of "This town/The rake's progress/100 nights" that closes "Holidays in Eden" is still one of the best post-Fish compositions from Marillion. After this they released their second concept album (third if you include "Clutching") in the exceptional "Brave", which I believe showed once and for all that Hogarth was his own man, not content to hang on the rapidly-disappearing coattails of the previous frontman, and he with the band created a true masterpiece to rival even "Misplaced childhood". Recently Marillion have moved somewhat away from their progressive rock roots, and in truth we'll never hear songs the calibre of "Script", "Forgotten sons", "Grendel" or "Emerald lies" again, but I still think Marillion remain a potent force in prog rock, if for nothing else than as an inspiration for new bands who are only just getting to grips with the prog rock principles. Fish, on the other hand, has remained true to his original vision for Marillion in his solo work, releasing some amazing albums, one of the best of which in my opinion is "Raingods with zippos", but his catalogue has been a little hit and miss. "Suits" had some great songs, as had "Sunsets on empire", but there was some filler, whereas "Fellini days" I find more than a little hard to really get into. I enjoyed "Field of crows" immensely, and am looking forward to his latest effort. Whether it's Marillion with Fish or Hogarth, Fish on his own or the likes of Transatlantic, The Wishing Tree or the H Band, I'll always be a fan of anything to do with Marillion. For me, they really introduced me to "modern" progressive rock, music I thought could only be played by "older" bands from the 60s and 70s, and helped to not only keep prog rock alive, but to flourish and grow, passing the baton to a whole new batch of hopefuls. Anyone care to comment? __________________ Trollheart: Signature-free since April 2018

06-06-2012, 09:35 AM	#4 (permalink)
Trollheart Born to be mild Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: 404 Not Found Posts: 26,970	I of course find it hard to believe that anyone hates Marillion, but then I suppose not everyone will love them. Kay, try to get past the smart gits singing to you and have a listen to these (2 Fish era, 2 Hogarth) Emerald lies, from "Fugazi" White Russian, from "Clutching at straws" Dry land, from "Holidays in Eden" Afraid of sunlight, title track Howard, you really need to listen to "Script", Marillion's debut and still their best. This is the title track. Oh, and here's their epic "Grendel". Yeah, seventeen minutes. Hell of a song. Not trying to force Marillion down your throats, guys, but maybe give them a chance? __________________ Trollheart: Signature-free since April 2018

06-09-2012, 05:57 AM	#7 (permalink)
Urban Hat€monger ? The Sexual Intellectual Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Somewhere cooler than you Posts: 18,605	Marillion were the first band I ever saw live, and I thought they were awful. I saw them sometime around early 1988 so I'm guessing it would have been one of Fish's last gigs with the band, I actually met him in the mens toilets a couple of hours before the gig and he seemed like a nice enough guy. Because my mother worked at the venue I was able to get hold of a really cheap discounted ticket for both myself and my friend Phil , who was a massive fan of theirs. Actually the thing I remember the most about the gig was the support act who were a local band called 'Unique' who comprised of a big fat bald bastard in white face paint covering his whole head and great big black circles around his eyes like some cheap Leigh Bowrey knock off on lead vocals and 2 rejects from Sigue Sigue Sputnik backing him up on synths. I seem to remember them having a song called 'Inch Man' which was probably about a penis or something. Marillion came on, everybody waited to hear their 3 singles and then fucked off. __________________ Urb's RYM Stuff Most people sell their soul to the devil, but the devil sells his soul to Nick Cave.

06-09-2012, 06:22 AM	#8 (permalink)
~~James~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Scotland Posts: 4,483	Worst album art of any band ever. So much cheese.