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-   -   The Genesis 2018 Discussion Thread (https://www.musicbanter.com/prog-psychedelic-rock/91076-genesis-2018-discussion-thread.html)

OccultHawk 01-15-2018 09:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neapolitan (Post 1915284)
I can't participate in farce of a thread, which btw was started by an Anti-Abacaber. It's MusicBanter amateur hour at its worst. :(



I am fan of ELP. I always thought they great musicians. Keith Emerson was known for some crazy onstage antics. He would pull out knives (he had two) and stab at his organ, to sustain a note. When he was done he would through them into his Leslie cabinet. The blades would dull pretty quick and if they weren't sharpen they would bounce off the cabinet. There was one time Keith threw the knife and it ricocheted off the cabinet and the knife went directly into his roadie's leg. Ouch! That's gotta hurt.

Emerson, Lake & Palmer - Knife Edge / Rondo / Drum Solo - Live 1970 - Remastered


In the early days of Genesis they would go to see ELP in concert. They saw Kieth do onstage did what I just described. In fact they actually named the The Knife after the knife in Kieth's knife act. Believe it or not the person who gave those two knives to Keith Emerson was Lemmy Kilmister. So whenever I hear The Knife I feel Lemmy somehow lives on in spirit in that song, because it was his knife originally.

So if you are going to get serious about the best Genesis a la ELP song it would have to be The Knife.

Genesis - The Knife
Can you verify this. Trespass was released before ELP’s debut album. Doesn’t mean it’s impossible. Lemmy was a roadie for the Nice and as I’m sure you know Emerson was in The Nice. Are you thinking of the Nice or ELP?

Anteater 01-15-2018 09:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by OccultHawk (Post 1915279)
Stop feeding the troll, troll
You just don't wanna admit my review was spot on.

But for realz, I think Trespass is brilliant. Anthony Phillips just brings so much to the proceedings.

Neapolitan 01-15-2018 09:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by OccultHawk (Post 1915288)
Can you verify this. Trespass was released before ELP’s debut album. Doesn’t mean it’s impossible. Lemmy was a roadie for the Nice and as I’m sure you know Emerson was in The Nice. Are you thinking of the Nice or ELP?
The working title for The Knife was "Nice" so had to be them. Keith carry part of his act over from the Nice to ELP, and I guess after seeing concert footage of ELP I mixed up who Genesis saw. The other part is true where Lemmy gave Keith the two knives.

Chula Vista 01-15-2018 10:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neapolitan (Post 1915284)
Keith Emerson was known for some crazy onstage antics.
Dude was insane to have agreed to this.

OccultHawk 01-15-2018 10:38 PM
Jeez

I saw ELP and they didn’t do anything cool like that

Neapolitan 01-15-2018 10:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chula Vista (Post 1915294)
Dude was insane to have agreed to this.
I think I know what it is even before clicking on the video. That came back to haunt him. He said when he would meet people they would say "oh you're the guy who spun around in the air with the piano." And then he would be left feeling salty cause they didn't say anything about his playing.

Trollheart 01-16-2018 05:25 AM
Neap (yeah I went there) there's no pleasing you, is there? You and I started overloading the other thread with Genesis stuff, so I start one where we can talk about Genesis and it's a "farce thread"? Seriously, just learn not to be such a moany ****er all the time and try to enjoy discussions about the bands you like, instead of crucifying me cos I hate Abacab. You're beyond pathetic, honestly. Get out of your bubble and join the conversation.

Btw, ELP suck. :p:

Trollheart 01-16-2018 08:28 AM
Hey-ho, on we go!
Trollheart's Genesis Top Ten
Number Four

"Ripples" - A Trick of the Tail (1976)

Trollheart's Genesis Bottom Ten
Number Five

"That's All" - Genesis (1983)

OccultHawk 01-16-2018 11:46 AM
I don’t want you to blow a gasket but I sort of like That’s All.

Trollheart 01-16-2018 11:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by OccultHawk (Post 1915430)
I don’t want you to blow a gasket but I sort of like That’s All.
That's cool. No need for the blown gasket, Charlie! :)
It's not without its charm; I just don't see it as a Genesis song, but you're entitled to your opinion. After all, Ant likes "Illegal Alien". :laughing:

OccultHawk 01-16-2018 12:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trollheart (Post 1915431)
That's cool. No need for the blown gasket, Charlie! :)
It's not without its charm; I just don't see it as a Genesis song, but you're entitled to your opinion.
It’s very mediocre compared the old stuff.

I like Duke and ...and then there were three

but honestly I’m surprised that any of that stuff makes your top ten

top ten Genesis is high standard

Trollheart 01-16-2018 12:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by OccultHawk (Post 1915437)
It’s very mediocre compared the old stuff.

I like Duke and ...and then there were three

but honestly I’m surprised that any of that stuff makes your top ten

top ten Genesis is high standard
What can I tell ya? Predictable is for the birds. I've got my share of "newer" Genesis songs I like. Can't be an old fart all the time.

Anteater 01-16-2018 12:40 PM
If you go online and look at a lot of "Genesis: Albums Ranked" type articles, Abacab is generally rated more highly than the Genesis self-titled. They're often interchanged in overall ranking on the lists I saw, which makes sense as they are very similar records in regards to production and overall flow.

My joke posts aside, I like Genesis a lot but I think some of the modern prog bands like Big Big Train (who are heavily influenced by them) have ended up producing material that exceeds even Peter Gabriel's best stuff with the band, such as the The Underfall Yard LP and their English Electric series.

Trollheart 01-16-2018 01:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anteater (Post 1915464)
If you go online and look at a lot of "Genesis: Albums Ranked" type articles, Abacab is generally rated more highly than the Genesis self-titled. They're often interchanged in overall ranking on the lists I saw, which makes sense as they are very similar records in regards to production and overall flow.

My joke posts aside, I like Genesis a lot but I think some of the modern prog bands like Big Big Train (who are heavily influenced by them) have ended up producing material that exceeds even Peter Gabriel's best stuff with the band, such as the The Underfall Yard LP and their English Electric series.
I have no problem with Abacab being popular. I just don't like it. I realise that's a crime punishable by death in Neapolitan's world, but I don't care. Personally, I'd rate the 1983 album higher but would go for We Can't Dance, if pushed, out of all the albums post 1980. Duke of course is the high watermark for 80s Genesis, the "old" passing into the "new".

I share your love of BBT, great band and I'm still working through their discog, though Gathering Speed is really excellent, as is Goodbye to the Age of Steam and Bard.

Hawk, have you listened to any BBT?

Chula Vista 01-16-2018 01:25 PM
This is why it's impossible to rate Genesis for me. They are basically 4 bands.

Gabriel era > Collins with Hackett transistion era > Hackett gone era and the move to less prog > MTV and huge commerical pop/rock success era.

OccultHawk 01-16-2018 02:21 PM
Quote:
Hawk, have you listened to any BBT?
No.

Just scanned them on Spotify just now. Sounds a lot like old Genesis I take it.

Trollheart 01-16-2018 02:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by OccultHawk (Post 1915523)
No.

Just scanned them on Spotify just now. Sounds a lot like old Genesis I take it.
Very. The singer will make you think he's Gabriel.


Trollheart 01-16-2018 02:40 PM
Trollheart's Genesis Top Ten
Number Three

"One For the Vine" - Wind and Wuthering (1976)

Trollheart's Genesis Bottom Ten
Number Four

"The Battle of Epping Forest" - Selling England by the Pound (1973)

OccultHawk 01-16-2018 03:01 PM
Quote:
The Battle of Epping Forest
That is kind of a fail.

Trollheart 01-16-2018 03:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by OccultHawk (Post 1915540)
That is kind of a fail.
It's an awful song. If it wasn't for this, I'd rate Selling England much higher than I do. It kind of ruins it.

OccultHawk 01-16-2018 03:07 PM
What’s the best BBT album?

Trollheart 01-16-2018 03:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by OccultHawk (Post 1915544)
What’s the best BBT album?
I'd probably go for The Underfall Yard, or one of the English Electric ones, but Ant would know better.

OccultHawk 01-16-2018 03:27 PM
Do you like Mew and IQ?

Trollheart 01-16-2018 04:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by OccultHawk (Post 1915558)
Do you like Mew and IQ?
I've never heard Mew. I tried multiple times to get into IQ but just kept getting bored all the time. I haven't given up.

Trollheart's Genesis Top Ten
Number Two

"Watcher of the Skies" - Foxtrot (1972)

Trollheart's Genesis Bottom Ten
Number Three

"Ballad of Big" - ... And Then There Were Three (1978)
God how I despise this song!

and
Number Two

"Illegal Alien" - Genesis (1983)
Say no more...

Anteater 01-16-2018 05:10 PM
Mew and IQ are both pretty good.

The best Big Big Train album is a tie between The Underfall Yard and the English Electric: Full Power compilation. They've done some new albums since these two, but they are both fabulous albums that sound like a modernized take on the Genesis sound going up to And Then There Were Three...

And there's an argument to be made that BBT are actually the only real successor we have to Genesis today anyway, because lead vocalist David Longdon was the guy who auditioned against Ray Wilson back in the mid 90's for the frontman spot after Collins jumped ship. David didn't get picked obviously, but he ended up fronting BBT a little over a decade later instead. How's that for karma?

Trollheart 01-16-2018 05:24 PM
So I was right, then. :thumb: I would add GTTAOS though.

Trollheart 01-16-2018 07:17 PM
I'll leave you in suspense as to my all-time top and bottom tracks. Till the morrow!

GunmouthGrace 01-16-2018 07:32 PM
.

Chula Vista 01-16-2018 07:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by OccultHawk (Post 1915540)
That is kind of a fail.
BIG TIME FAIL. Epping Forest is one of the greatest Gabriel era songs.

OccultHawk 01-16-2018 07:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chula Vista (Post 1915647)
BIG TIME FAIL. Epping Forest is one of the greatest Gabriel era songs.
I meant the song but put your money where your mouth is and do a top ten. I think that song is daft.

Chula Vista 01-16-2018 07:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anteater (Post 1915464)
Big Big Train.
Thanks for the rec. Really like what I've checked out so far.
Ever heard Glass Hammer?

Really unique mashup of all of the early 70s prog bands.

Trollheart 01-16-2018 08:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chula Vista (Post 1915647)
BIG TIME FAIL. Epping Forest is one of the greatest Gabriel era songs.
Not even close. Even the other members slagged it off. Tony hated it and didn't want to compose the followup instrumental "After the Ordeal" (well named) but Gabriel convinced him. It destroys the whole atmos of the album, has nothing to do with anything and is unworthy of Genesis. IMHO.

Trollheart 01-16-2018 08:10 PM
Anyone into Pendragon?

And let's not forget the legitimate heirs to Genesis's crown...

Chula Vista 01-16-2018 08:10 PM
It's definitely a Gabriel wankfest. But the music is brilliant.

LOVE IT!

I stopped listening to Fish era Marillion. He just tries so damn hard to ape Gabriel - it's distracting IMO.

Trollheart 01-16-2018 08:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chula Vista (Post 1915654)
It's definitely a Gabriel wankfest. But the music is brilliant.

LOVE IT!
You're not Nea, so I hope we can agree to disagree. Hate it.

Neapolitan 01-16-2018 08:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trollheart (Post 1915493)
I have no problem with Abacab being popular. I just don't like it. I realise that's a crime punishable by death in Neapolitan's world,
No, no, no. It's not. It's more like mentioning Abacab and Office Space is punishable by verbal thrashing in Trollworld.

I hope the ruse of this thread isn't to bash Abacab and me.

On a more sane level of discussion. I remember my cousin had a tape of Genesis Live and I played this song over and over. Looking back I wish I listen to the whole album through a few times, instead of obsessing over one song, but I couldn't help myself it was so good.
Genesis ‎– Live
Watcher Of The Skies

Chula Vista 01-16-2018 09:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neapolitan (Post 1915663)
Genesis ‎– Live
Back in the mid 70s me and my best friend bought a couple Genesis albums (him Foxtrot, me Nursery Cryme) based simply on how cool the album covers were. Neither of us had heard of the band and had no clue at all what kind of music it was.

MIND BLOWN.

We swapped the albums back and forth for weeks.

Live was my third Genesis album and it was amazing to realize that these guys were a real band that could pull it off live.

Anteater 01-16-2018 11:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chula Vista (Post 1915649)
Thanks for the rec. Really like what I've checked out so far.
Ever heard Glass Hammer?

Really unique mashup of all of the early 70s prog bands.
I've got a few Glass Hammer records. Their 2010 record If is super reminiscent of classic Yes. I think their best record might be 2007's Culture Of Ascent though. :)

GunmouthGrace 01-16-2018 11:34 PM
.

Chula Vista 01-17-2018 03:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anteater (Post 1915688)
Culture Of Ascent
Easily their best IMO. Jon Anderson agrees.


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