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Old 05-13-2007, 08:53 PM   #11 (permalink)
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I think some punk bands are anti-capitalist just because they like to rebel against things. They just like being against the way things are where they live. If they lived in Sweden, they'd rebel against democratic socialism just because they'd seem more "badass" that way.
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Old 05-13-2007, 10:22 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swimintheundertow View Post
Well if humans are flawed and the system depends on the trust that humans will act in an intended way then the system is flawed.
That's a very good point. However, because human nature is flawed there can never be a system that isn't flawed. I personally don't even think there can be one that works well enough to be acceptable.

Wow, thats probably the punkest thing I've ever said, but thats not why I said it.
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Old 05-14-2007, 12:25 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Independent enterprise is indeed Capitalism, however, I'm sure most "punks" are rebelling against the idea of Capitalism being exploited by individuals getting lucky and building a wealth so great as to lessen the lives of others around them.

As Crowquill said, a lot of "punks" probably have anti-Capitalist mission statements because they get sucked into the average ideas of all punk bands, which is mostly hating the system.

Typically, the system is Capitalism.

No practice of government is flawed.
In practice, humans are flawed, and in turn, make the otherwise "good on paper" ideas tainted.

Picking up on Catie's idea, if in fact the system is inherently flawed because of humans, then Capitalism, Communism,etc. would have been flawed the moments they were conceived.

My theory is that humanity copes with everything being flawed since humanity itself is flawed.
Thus, you can't look at something with moral and say, "This is flawed", because you are inherently flawed.
I guess it's an extrapolation of what Catie was saying.

If you want to put the idea of imperfection in context, then I would say that Capitalism, Communism, Anarchism,etc. work fine given the base idea of humanity; no government is corrupt, nor the ideas on paper tarnished.
What makes any form of government seem inherently fractured is the fact that there are always different components of any society judging their government on terms of disagreement or agreement based on how their individual lives are affected or effected.
People may disagree with the principles of a particular government based on their living standard, morals, personal experience, or perception of reality.

No entire collection of people living in a unified society at any one moment can be truly happy, or completely agree with the pretext that their lives fall under, for that would be a utopia.

"Ce n'est rien. J'y suis. J'y suis toujours." from "Qu'est-ce pour nous, mon coeur" by Arthur Rimbaud effectively articulates what I'm trying to say.
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Old 05-14-2007, 10:22 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Capitalism pays my bills
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Old 05-14-2007, 10:51 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Not Parliament's inability to function as an economic power in a Socialist country?
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Old 05-15-2007, 06:03 PM   #16 (permalink)
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well, does anyone think education would work? i hate school as much as anyone, but thats only because most of my teachers are idiots. if people were taught to debate they might come to a consensus freely and be able to live happily. the problem with that is that too many people are rooted in conventional ideas. so maybe education might come in there. i don't think socialism is a workable system because capitalism already perpetuates the schoolcollegeworkdisneyworldworkworkcouch mentality. if everyone was assured employment it would only make things worse. and back to discussing music, what bands do you think have done well with a major label deal? as in keeping the music raw and honest?
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Old 05-15-2007, 09:07 PM   #17 (permalink)
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None.

Actually, I believe a lot of the old punk bands were on major labels. I think they were able to work with that since that was the dawn of punk. I'm hoping to god that Against Me! keeps their values with their next album (on Sire), but since Searching For a Former Clarity was pretty mediocre, I doubt it. Old AM! still means so much to me.

I love how political punk bands (like Anti-Flag, kindof) claim that by signing to a major lable they will be able to get their message out to a greater audience. Bull****. Theres this cowboy kid in my school who is a huge homophobe, sexist, hunter, etc. and I see him where a Rise Against shirt all the time. I keep thinking of going up to him and telling him that they stand for everything he hates. I would if I was a little more of an *******. With Siren Song Rise Against kept things pretty real, but I haven't heard their new cd.

Oh, Jawbreaker. I think Dear You is great. It sounds like Jawbreaker, there's no noticeable major label influence, which is probably why is sold so poorly.
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Old 05-16-2007, 06:15 AM   #18 (permalink)
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man, dude, if that **** went to my school i'd be so ****ing mad. Rise Against's new disc is better than siren song, at least in my opinion. the sound is more like revolutions (the last one on Fat wreck) but less harsh. and there's some experimentalism. and yeah, that distro thing is bull****. its about the production and extra moola.
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Old 05-16-2007, 04:52 PM   #19 (permalink)
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I want to replace all those edited swear words with swear words that don't fit.
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Old 05-16-2007, 05:14 PM   #20 (permalink)
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I'd sell out , make shedloads of money and then make the most unlistenable bollocks imaginable alienating most of my audience ,then claim that my selling out was a statement of post ironic irony or something. Journalists lap that kind of crap up.
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