hitman976

I hate politics in music. That's not why I listen to it. Obviously a lot of punk is politically driven to the left, but I listen because of the catchy riffs, simple chord progressions, good vocals, etc. I stopped going to the Warped Tour (after 7 years straight) simply due to half the bands vomiting their political propaganda on stage, instead of picking up their guitars and rocking out already!

Janszoon

lol. No it means only a few people in the South were super-rich.

Yes, the numbers of murders committed is also striking. And when one considers whether or not they are "bringing it upon themselves" one has to consider the context in terms of both conviction rates among blacks versus whites for the same crime and the differences in poverty level between the races.

__________________
A Night in the Life of the Invisible Man

Time & Place

25 Albums You Should Hear Before the Moon Crashes into the Earth and We All Die

last.fm

scottsy

As a Staunch Midnight Oil fan from waaaay back, i do believe there is a strong place for Politics in popular music. From it's very beginnings it made political impacts and often, whether intended or not, had political impacts... look at how polarizing Elvis was and how conservatives reacted to him... it was nothing short of a gigantic outrage! So whether or not you like it, if you impact the public in a massive way, you're bound to enter the political realm in some way.... it's because politics is about people and how the world is governed and what communities deem acceptable...

And hey if you have a great positive message why not use your unique place in the public eye to do some good... prove you're not some scrubby kid whosse head is full of irrelevant stupid thoughts... I'm ok with that.

If you don't like bands having thoughts, just tune out and go buy a beer between songs... or start listening to throwaway pop tunes...

__________________
"If you're like me, then it's possible you're a clone generated from my stolen DNA. I suggest you turn yourself in for destruction immediately" - Shaun Micallef.

fairborn420

Just want to point out a couple things. First, I dont believe for one second that any teacher taught that blacks immigrated here and became slaves voluntarily. Unless this person went to school in the 1800s, I think that was completely made up.. Also, alot of blacks owned slaves themselves. In fact, blacks were slaves in Africa, owned by other blacks, long before white folks got involved. Doesnt make it right, Im just sayin.

I dont think anyone is trying to argue that slavery was right or that it didnt have a great impact on future blacks. However, I find it very odd that immediatley following slavery there were ex slaves that did well for themselves. Owned property etc.. Also, they generally were very family oriented and spiritual. Now 100+ years after the end of slavery the black community is in shambles. Dont you think that over time the situation for blacks should have gotten considerably better, not worse? What we have here, and its not just on the part of blacks, is a society that wants everything handed to them. They dont want to take responsibility for themselves or work hard to achieve. They want to cry about past wrong doings and make claims that someone, or everyone owes them something.


Everyone should read the book "black rednecks, white liberals" by Dr. Thomas Sowell.

fairborn420

And one more thing. Stop trying to blame crime rates on poverty. I spent a large portion of my life in poverty and never commited a crime. Also, I find it humorous what we consider to be poor. Most poort people, white or black, have a car, a tv, cable, cell phone, internet, heat, AC, etc... The poor in the US live better than 90% of the rest of world..

scottsy

aye aye Captain! Obviously your poverty isn't so bad now that you have access to the internet for long enough to post on a recreational interest site as this one is...

__________________
"If you're like me, then it's possible you're a clone generated from my stolen DNA. I suggest you turn yourself in for destruction immediately" - Shaun Micallef.

Janszoon

Well, I don't know what to tell you, I'm not making it up. The school in question was in Auburn Alabama and I know the person who was taught that as a student there. She is in her mid 30s now so she was presumably taught that in the 1980s or 1990s.

Yes, there was slavery in Africa. And in Europe. And in the Middle East. And in a lot of places historically. It doesn't change the fact that in the US it was whites owning blacks.

While it is true that after the Civil War there was an amazing amount of advancement for blacks in the US, what you neglect to mention is what came on the heels of that: the KKK, Jim Crow, and an array of other things which succeeded in pushing them back down again. I mean are you really arguing that everything was fine from the mid-1860s on and that there was no real need for the civil rights movement of the 1950s and 1960s?

__________________
A Night in the Life of the Invisible Man

Time & Place

25 Albums You Should Hear Before the Moon Crashes into the Earth and We All Die

last.fm

fairborn420

No. Im not arguing at all. What I am saying is there is no real need for a civil rights movement today. And that over the years as slavery fades farther into the past the black communities are getting worse. It would seem to me that by now, slavery shouldnt be an excuse for bad behavior, bad choices, violence etc.. Now, I feel that I should atleast point out the fact that obviously all blacks dont have racist views or violent tendencies. There are alot of decent hard working tax paying blacks that worked hard, got an education and have succeeded. But there are still alot, and again its not just blacks I think its more of a societal thing, that blame past wrong doings for their current situation and until we stop buying into that it will continue to happen. The white guilt has got to stop. I never owned a slave. In fact, my family didnt arrive here until slavery was over. No black alove today were ever slaves, nor were their parents or grandarents. Its time to stop using that as an excuse.

Janszoon

Okay, so we are in agreement that the civil rights movement of the 50s and 60s was a necessary reaction to the massive institutional racism of that time. And that means, of course, that serious oppression of blacks in the US existed not just in mists of 19th century history, but also within living memory. You say "no blacks alive today were ever slaves." That's true, but you're ignoring the fact that there are many black Americans alive today who experienced segregation firsthand, who were denied the right to vote, who had friends or family who were lynched, and assorted other forms of oppression. I think it's pretty clear that something so recent still has lingering effects and, though things are getting better and better as more time passes, inequality certainly still exists today.

One last thing: You make the claim that black communities are getting worse. Are they? My understanding is, though there still is significant inequality, things are improving. I see the growing black middle class as an example of this.

__________________
A Night in the Life of the Invisible Man

Time & Place

25 Albums You Should Hear Before the Moon Crashes into the Earth and We All Die

last.fm

hip hop bunny hop

The Penguin Encyclopedia of American History (2005 edition) was where I got my statistics on slavery.... under the "Slavery" topic, :P The rest is just a result of having "Anthropology: Social Stratification" as a minor.

It means that any notion of collective guilt on the part of whites is asinine, and - as you hint - it's more of an issue of class than race. To use a bit of vulgar historical materialism, the era of slavery in the USA, with the exception of the latter years, was bound to happen - the proto-capitalist and the still dominant mercantilist economy necessitated slavery. Racism was a by-product of this necessity... racism was a result of slavery, not a cause.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but on the point of conviction rates - wouldn't individuals from black majority neighborhoods tend to have black majority jury, as well? As jury duty is tied to where you vote...

You're forgetting that segregations effects weren't universal in the African American community. Some blacks were forced into povery because of it; some profitted handsomely from it. Further, you're forgetting that segregation's negative economic effects weren't limited to the black community - it harmed working class whites as well.