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AMURIKAH!!!1!

how so?

my take on the american political system is that it has become a joke of itself simply because people calling themselves republicans are ridiculously conservative while people calling themselves democrats are ridiculously liberal.

you have yet to change my opinion on this.

Basically, the definitions of liberal and conservative break down like this:

liberalism: the belief in the importance of individual freedom.

conservatism: the belief in the need for natural law.



Personally, I don't view either the Democratic or Republican parties as purely embodying one of the above definitions in the simplest form. I actually don't see either party as a truly liberal party. In my opinion, both modern parties believe that the only way to fix a problem is with government action, and the only disagreement is with how the funds to support such an action should be financed. Neither political party takes a hard stance on anything because they are always trying to please everyone, which I understand makes sense because that is how a two-party system is set up to work. Personally, I would love to see a multi-party system in the United States, but I digress...

Well said.

It's also true that the punk movement grew out of a disdain for progressiveness and liberalism. Punks are more "conservative" in their thinking than most people care to believe. They like small government, are often anti-this or anti-that, want to be left alone, and cling to their ska and guns. What truly separates punks from political conservatives is the adherence to that other form of control and governance....religion.

I know plenty of punks who believe in God and are great husbands and fathers for it, but they adamantly despise the institutions of "church" and "religion".

...but that's a topic for another day.

-

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Actually, I have to disagree. The belief in the importance of individual freedom is actually a "libertarian" mantra, not a "liberal" mantra. There was once a time when "liberal" mean what you said until politicians corrupted hippies with art grants and turned them into lobbyist.

"Progressives" have taken over the liberal arms of both the Democratic and Republican parties. True liberalism is on its last leg.

Conservatives come in all shapes and sizes. You have social conservatives, fiscal conservatives, environmental conservatives, etc.

If I had to lay down a quick comparative definition between liberals and conservatives, I'd have to say this:

Today's Liberal: They don't care if you believe in anything, or what you believe in, as long as you contribute through government for the benefit of social management.

Today's Conservative: More "punk" than ever and buying ammo in bulk.

LOL.

_

Wow some peoples perceptions of the political spectrum are insane.

Also to suggrst the democratic party of America is too far to the left is quite frankly laughable. They are a centre right party with the Republicans on the lunatic side of the right wing spectrum.

Nice joke about the ammo, but very true that conservatives are today's punks. Liberalism today is dominated by leftist progressives that desire to control every aspect of human behavior until we're all locked up in cages, or attached to something like the Matrix. Conservatives are fearless believers of individual freedom, which is a radical thought to these progressives who fear human nature. Conservatives are the ones saying "F_uck Off" and are trying to prevent this government take over of our lives, and if need be, inject a little anarchy in the democratic process to halt this big government agenda in it's tracks. Sorry if I digressed from the topic, but I think it be cool to see some sort of punk movement in politics, where a politicians would practice a minimalism and just say what the truth is, instead of layering a lot sorts of complexities and political correctness that always needs to be filtered to understand what they just said.

lol

Interestingly, conservatives want to control "our" lives more than liberals in terms of abortion and drug legislation. And if you think there is equal opportunity to success under a laissez-faire regime, you're insane. The social inequalities create barriers for people born in the lower classes, that hinders their ability to achieve financial or social progress.

That's the kind of BS progressives use to keep lower classes under their control. It reinforces a belief that poor people can't accomplish anything without a handout. Furthermore, once the government creates a program to dispense aid to the poor, the poor became their customers, therefore big government wants them to remain poor, because if the don't, they cease being customers, and big government is out of business. The Progressive's net effect is to create a class of people that are dependant and poor. Vertical class movement has never been accomplished by such socialist government intervention and redistribution of weath. The laissez-faire regime, which you seem to be at odds with, is what destroys these social barriers and rewards people for their hard work, innovation and ideas, not the color of their skin, their sociological and religious beliefs, or the size of their bank account.

:stupid:

Ridiculous post.

Why would a government, liberal or not want to create a class dependant on state handouts.

A laissez faire regime doesnt actually help the poor in society whatsoever. It never has and never will. With lack of restrictions on buisness the larger companies would create monopolies reducing competition reducing competion and driving up prices.

Whats more without employment law safeguarding the rights of the workers the large comperations would be free to abuse the working class therefore ubjecting them to low wages and bad conditions.

Laissez faire economics has ben a disaster whenever it has been tried, trust me I have a degree in History. It has pretty much ruined the U.S economy olnce more under Bush.

The fact im seeing Obama being called a communist on the news at the moment shows how far gone the American public is. Posts like yours are so far away from reality its scary.

How normal people vote and actively support something that is so far from their own interests. The U.K isnt that much better but I dread the day we turn into mindless zombies like a good proportian of Americans.

Holy Effin Crap. Are you naive? VOTES!!!

Capitalism my not be perfect, but without it's rise and the industrial revolution, the vast majority of us would still be BLEEPING PEASANTS!

It's been well documented that the vast majority of news coverage regarding Obama has been extremely positive, and he wasn't very will vetted by the press. Consequently us American's are witnessing his inexperience as he fails get anything passed into law. The conservatives are standing up to his agenda, out-witting his incompetent appointees at every corner, and like"punks", are spitting and stomping on his agenda. That's all eyes sayin. :wave:

As far as I see, (conservative) punk isn't about screaming about deregulation. It's about getting harassed by cops, thrown in prison, - discussing real issues that affect you.

Also, it's about what you do correct the situation, like stomping hippie scum.

Punk is, most definitely, not hippies beating on Bongo's talking about protesting the plight of Peruvian Transvestites.

If you have a history degree then why do you think we had a laissez-faire economy under Bush? LOL!

Major tax breaks for the rich would suggest a laissez faire approach.

I'm not well versed in Bush's domestic policy and as Bush was in power as I did my degree he was not covered.

meh cant be bothered discussing politics on here either, it does nothing but stress me out.

Giving out tax breaks doesn't even come close to creating a true laissez-faire economy...

I wish you would just say exactly what you mean by 'right wing punk'. From the songs you've posted I assume that you're talking about Nazi/National Socialism stuff. I honestly wanna know if I'm misinterpreting.

haha..what? Beating up hippies is how you stand up to bully cops?

On this we can agree

??? Special Duties are not NS. I don't think they even associated with any RAC bands. Warfare 88 & Forward Area, on the split I referenced in the OP, comes closest to discussing race on the track "Illegal Aliens", but even then it doesn't single out wetbacks.

That being stated, I'd call White Power/NAZI punk bands right-wing, so I suppose you can include them in this category, but they're not the only bands up for the discussion.

(EDIT)

To expand, and give you an idea....

Samchung are a far-right Korean band. Their name itself is a reference to the re-education centers maintained by a rather unpopular dictator of the past. Are they NAZI or White Pride punks? Of course not, but they still qualify.

Sniper are a far-right wing Finnish band. They have a song entitled "White Racist Christ", which should give you an idea of their ideology. They qualify.

See?

It's one method, that's for sure.

Yes, I'm starting to get it. As for Special Duties - I had never heard of them before so I was only talking about the others, and not the lyrics to those particular songs but just their association with the NS and WP movements in general.
And thanks for responding, I wasn't trying to goad you into making racist statements or anything (but you did it anyway). In fact, I believe that you have the right to hate whoever you want to hate for whatever reason.
However..now I've got a new question. When I asked if beating hippies was your way of standing up to cops you replied with..

So, again...what the fuck? What does one thing have to do with the other?
I don't believe punks have the right to stomp on hippies no matter how scummy they are. If cops are "harassing" you by throwing you in jail for stomping on people, well.. that's their job really. And people shouldn't get stomped on just for being a hippie. So another serious question is: Why do you stomp on hippies? How does that 'correct the situation'?

skrewdriver??? angry aryans????

among others

What about them? I assume they count as right wing punk.
I have never listened to Angry Aryans but I think Skrewdriver was actually a good band musically. I won't listen to any of the music they made after they became White Power punk poster children though. I think they only made one non-RAC album and I'm not sure if any of the other members even stayed after they went white power -- just the frontman. But then he got stomped. Really he died in a car wreck but I know of people who think he was murdered for his 'right wing' views.

Yeah. This is interesting because it would depend on what is meant by "right wing". Im a Conservative guy and in American politics Conservatives are known as "right wing". However, in other parts of the world "right wing" means something very different. Now we are talking skin head, racist, nazi types. If we are talking American conservative "right wing" then i would be interested. In fact I would argue that punk is the perfect venue for conservative ideaology. Small government, less intrusive government, more power to the people, etc.. etc..

Hey - watch it. You're sounding a bit like hippie scum..;)

I have never said anything approaching racist. If you're referring to the wetback comment, wetback's (illegal Latin Americans) are not a race. Latin American's of almost entirely of European or Indigenous descent, as well as the Mestizos, can all be wetbacks. It's a status one can opt to have, not one a person is born with, and it crosses Latin America's ethnic divisions.

Well, it's not a right limited to punks, but - to be brief - I don't agree with most of (classical) Liberal thought. In this instance this is manifested by my not believing hippies have "human rights".

Because I strongly dislike hippie culture and view it as a pernicious problem. Hippie culture destroys that which is beautiful and fosters much that is bad. As hippies are the carriers of this cultural problem, the response seems appropriate.

If you think that's appropriate then I would suggest that it's you thats the problem.

All music can make a point.
If someone wants to make a right-wing punk song, I really don't know why not.
One of my band-mates is right-wing. (But everyone else isn't, so we generally stay away from politics).
I think that music and politics are in a long and inappropriate relationship. Music is about things which effect people, and politics' influence on people is tiny compared to other people with no political power. People with political power will smash your life once in a blue moon. Random people will always be smashing your life.
And yet, politics have such a huge influence in songs.
I think it's just one of those things that's fun to write about.

I find it beyond ironic that a genre of music originally calling for the abolition of all government is now calling for the support of the right wing......

What would be even more ironic would be that same genre of music supporting the left wing since it is the left wing that is actually for bigger more intrusive government.

Punk generally insults government, so since last decade was made up of bush we had a lot of left-wing, so now in a couple months or so expect a bunch of punkies insult obama and the democratic party

The fact that there's a "punk" band called the Angry Aryans pisses me off to no end.

???

Why? The music is good, they're obviously talented. The lyrics are better than anything offered up by Crass or the various carriers of the emo plague. Further, not listening to the music & being offended by it accomplishes nothing.

^

That makes absolutely no sense. I'll tell you what it accomplishes: if someone sees you listening to a band with a name like "Angry Aryans" you will lose your friends. Fast.

And if you don't I don't like your friends.

I don't like communism but I listen to Rage? *shrugs*

I have every reason to be offended and pissed at a band called The Angry Aryans, since I'm Jewish. Plus, I looked them up and listened and they suck.

I think you're trying to say people should listen to it and THEN be offended by it?

No, rather that people grand-standing and calling a band morally repugnant is, at best, ego-stroking. More often than not it's people just turning off their critical thinking faculties, joining the crowd, and being against something because, hey, "it's not nice".

Real heroic attitude, that.

You don't like my friends.

Being offended is a choice. I choose not to let things offend me.

Half my family are of Indian decent, why would I listen to a band who encourages hate against them?

I don't care how good the music is, Although i'm guessing it's probably some bland run of the mill 'Oi' crap. If it isn't i'll happily miss out.

I'm assuming the angry aryans are a racist band-and I find racism morally repugnant and those who practice it morally repugnant....and a lot of other people are offended by racist ass holes

You'll find a lot of people don't like ass holes.

Argry Aryans ARE indeed, a racist band, but I could totally see how a regular punk band would call themselves the Angry Aryans. That name, used ironically, could be epic.
Seeing as though aryans are people with light skin, blonde hair, and blue eyes, what doesn't give them the right to be angry? They are associated with Hitler's perfect army and although I do not have Aryan coloring, I could see how this association would piss me off. Angry that your ancestors were retarded. Angry that millions of people died without a good reason. Angry with the violence and hate associated with your heritage. The idea of that is very punk.
The fact that you're probably not a Nazi and you listen to Nazi punk because you like it makes it seem like you think racism and hate are cute and acceptable. I listened to a few Angry Aryan songs and the lyrics are all about how black people are savages. Why you think this is better then Crass absolutely perplexes me.