Urban Hat€monger ?

How about making the US State Department a laughing stock?

Kill Your Pet Puppy » Blog Archive » Crass – Thatchergate Tape And News Broadcasts – January 1984

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TockTockTock

What are you going on about? That is utter nonsense.

Music has had a tremendous impact on the development of civilization. Hell, just look at western classical music. It not only helped shape the countries within each of the eras (Renaissance, Classical, Baroque, etc), but it also held an accurate representation of what was going on at the time. So, it helps set and reflect the norm in a given time period and/or culture. This can be said about any type of music actually. You could even look at popular music as an example... like with the band The Plastic People and its ties to the Velvet Revolution. Folk music as well... Vladimir Oidupaa, a Tuvan throat-singer, was imprisoned by his country's government because they were frightened by his growing influence. Music is a form of communication and a powerful one at that. It inspires people, and to think that all of that is based on a very superficial, skin-deep level. We could go into much more detail if you wish to, but I don't feel that this discussion warrants that.

The Batlord

So in other words Crass' music changed nothing. Some tape that happened to be compiled by a member of Crass did. Like I said, I can respect Crass for actually living up to their ideals, but using music to do so is rather useless.

How did it "help shape the countries within each of the eras"? You can't just make a statement like this and not explain it.

Of course music can be seen as a reflection of the mood of the times. This doesn't mean it's doing anything other than being some sort of creative outlet. I can whine and bitch about anything, but whining and bitching alone accomplishes nothing.

Meh. There's always gonna be isolated incidents, but these are so few and far between as to make trying to make political change through music to be largely pointless. If you wanna change something maybe you should actually get involved in something.

Again, meh. Maybe in some dictatorship where people are just looking for something to rally around there's an outside chance of music affecting any real change, but in England or America people have food, shelter, and are relatively safe, so they don't really feel the need to be up in arms about anything. And they certainly aren't gonna listen to a bunch of musicians who would probably find something to be pissed off about no matter where they were. You know, cause they're just self righteous twenty somethings who just wanna be pissed off about whatever they can justify being pissed off about.

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Urban Hat€monger ?

I'm not sure you understand the concept of protest songs.
The point is to spread awareness and information, if you change something process then good for you but you'll never find out if you don't try in the first place.

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The Batlord

If you think that you're gonna change something if you write a protest song then you're naive. You'd be better served to become politically engaged and actually do something rather than just write a little ditty. But I don't really mind protest songs when it's used as a form of expression. I just can't stand holier-than-thou wannabe revolutionaries who're just angsty youngsters with a chip on their shoulders.

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Urban Hat€monger ?

I've become aware of situations through songs being made about them and bands talking about them, which is the whole point of writing them.

You don't seriously think people write a song thinking 'This'll bring down the government'?

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The Batlord

Maybe not bring down the government, but I'm sure they think they can accomplish something. Unfortunately most of these groups are only gonna inspire people who are either disenfranchised (either because they live in communist Czechoslovakia or because they're just naturally disposed to be contrary to society in general) or that small minority of people who are serious music fans. Like you. The vast majority of people couldn't give a ****, so unless your only goal is to express your discontent and you don't particularly care about what happens after it goes into the ether, then it's rather pointless.

Edit: And since we were talking about the Clash, I think this very much applies. I'm not a Clash expert, but I've certainly seen quotes where they talk a whole lot about revolution and young people taking back power and other assorted communist revolutionary drivel.

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red.head

Actually, they were mentioned during some discussions in the Parliament. Someone asked Thatcher whether she was going to listen to their album. Lots of fuss when they tried to counterfeit some of her phone conversations.
So now you're going to blame Crass for not changing the government or something? Have you ever tried to do it? Was it so easy? It's not that simple to change the world, especially when you don't want a bloody revolution but just some people to think. And I admire the whole work they've done, keeping in mind they had no Malcolm McLaren behind their back.
And another thing is pure inspiration. Your lyrics can't change everything just like that, but they can make some people think and maybe EVEN do something. And that's pretty much enough.
I respect the Pistols, if they hadn't been there then probably Clash and Crass wouldn't have, too. Rotten's a nice guy and all that. But still the question was - which punk album is the best? I hesitated and finally chose The Clash. So please, finding some stupid phrases to argue about is not the point here.

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Mr. Grieves

In my opinion, it's Fresh Fruit For Rotting Vegetables by Dead Kennedys.

Janszoon

What song are you talking about?

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