GuD

The thing about being in one of the biggest musical projects in recent history is that you don't have to know the members personally to know who they were and what they were about. Documentaries, interviews, etc. all confirm what he's saying. The Ramones were a bunch of tough, working class kids from New York who didn't want to be a cover band (the only other option at the time to being a rock star virtuoso), couldn't play like Led Zeppelin, and who wanted to make something different. That ethos was shared by many other bands at the time and is what lives on today. People still feel that way and still have managed to make new and interesting Punk music that sounds different nearly 40 years after Punk's alleged 'Death'. Phil Spector is a HUGE influence on The Ramones, ESPECIALLY on Joey. After they kicked out Tommy as both a drummer and producer, they hired Phil to produce End of the Century. He produced on most of Joey's solo records, too. Do you not know who Phil Spector is? Let me enlighten you:

He invented the "Wall of Sound" approach to production, basically defining 60s pop as well as laying ground work for Shoegaze, Noise Rock, etc.
He's worked with everyone from Tina Turner to The Crystals to The Beatles to The Ramones.
He has a crazy ass hair-do.
He is in jail for shooting a woman in the mouth. Maybe it should've been you.

Every time someone counters your ridiculous hypothesis with FACTS disproving your claims you either ignore them or respond by denying those fact's relevance. You can't make a claim and then filter out any information that inconveniences your claim's agenda- that's called propaganda you ****ing fascist and there's a reason only brain-washed zombies believe it.

I leave you with this:

__________________
I spit bullets in my feet
Every time I speak
So I write instead
And still people want me dead
~msc

Lord Larehip

I don't know!! But you're talk as though you do know and I am asking you--DO YOU KNOW? Quit trying to change the subject and just answer the question: Do you know any of the guys in the Ramones?

Yeah and? Doesn't mean they can't be influenced by anything. I was friends with the wife of Frank Discussion of Feederz and he was a total Situationist at that time. I don't know about now. Liking what you like and bowing down to authority are not exactly the same thing.

butthead aka 216

lord i feel like youre still disgruntled and bitter because your band never made it big and you blame grunge for it which is why you hate it so much


im not a punk fan, ive liked very few songs ive heard and really dont like the punk mentality or whtever

Sansa Stark

The Ramones are ****ing terrible

GuD

yo fvck dis ****.

__________________
I spit bullets in my feet
Every time I speak
So I write instead
And still people want me dead
~msc

Lord Larehip

But I asked him point-blank if he knew these guys and i can't get a straight answer. H enever said anything about documentaries or anything else. If that's where he learned what he clams to know about these guys then he would have said so. He's making an assumption and stating it as though it is fact. And he knows he overstepped his boundaries and got called on it.

and speaking of documentaries, you might want to watch one called "American Hardcore" where they interview the hardcore bands of the 80s all the biggies--Black Flag, Bad Brains, Minor Threat, Die Kreuzen, MDC, etc. and they all said hardcore was dead by the end of '85. What will strike you is that none of them dispute that it ended. One guys said, "We used to be a hardcore punk band but now we're just a hard rock and roll band."

Another said, "There will be another musical revolution and it will be intense and energetic and the kids will go nuts over it but it won't be hardcore."

Yet another said that every 15 years or so there will be a new thing coming along.

So I say, take what punk taught you and build something new. No sense building what's already built.

GuD

Where did you learn that the Ramones were in any way influenced by Dada? Did you know them personally? The only argument I could make that MIGHT indicate that they were influenced by Dada is that Joey's mom was a gallery owner. You are aware that one of the Ramones most famous songs is "Now I Wanna Sniff Some Glue", aren't you? You know the lyrics, right? You do realize you are doing the same thing by assuming punk is dead and stating that as a fact, don't you? He may not have answered your question and he may not have sourced any documentaries but that doesn't make his point any less accurate.

Edit: I don't know if he edited his post before or after your response but he actually did include a link to the Ramones' wikipedia entry in regards to their influences.

1st, did you not see the post with video containing the Locust song?
2nd, it may be dead in the sense that none of the original bands are continuing to play anymore but there have been plenty of hardcore bands after Minor Threat and friends broke up. It might be considered a part of a different subgenre but it's still in essence hardcore, the same way hardcore is in essence still punk. It didn't die, it got overrun by skinheads and bull**** scene politics only a teenager could relate to. Old bands got older and did something different. New bands saw a template and took it in different directions, for better and worse.

You're looking at this through a repulsively consumerist lens, as if genres of music don't evolve but rather appear just as quickly as they get replaced- like a house being torn down and then replaced by a condominium complex. As if anything that isn't completely ground breaking and of-the-minute isn't worthy of attention. You're refusing to see music as a continuum, to acknowledge that there indeed is a common beam of support between the The Wipers and Nirvana, Stiff Little Fingers and Dillinger Four. Part of artistic growth is recycling- looking back while pushing forward. That's not building what's already built. That's building on top of what's already built. It's turning a one floor single family home into a sky scraper. Do you get my metaphor? Do you know what happens to a tall structure when you take out it's base?


Also, I like how you completely ignored the last paragraph of my post you quoted, pretty much exemplifies to a tee what I meant. Forget about punk for a minute, if you take anything away from this thread, let it be this: You are one of those people whose head is so far up their own ass, who is so self-deluded and stubborn, that you've reached a point where you cannot understand anything that isn't your own ****.

Either get with the program or just **** off already.

__________________
I spit bullets in my feet
Every time I speak
So I write instead
And still people want me dead
~msc

Unknown Soldier

Nicely summed up concerning the Ramones.

__________________
Metal Wars

Power Metal

Pounding Decibels- A Hard and Heavy History

Sansa Stark

What, they do? They stayed together for ass many years and yet never released anything remotely different? The Clash at least switched their sound up every album. People who deify the Ramones annoy the **** out of me, they were not even remotely as good as people perpetuate that they were.

FRED HALE SR.

They switched up their sound just fine. Your ears tell you something different. Its fine to pile on the Ramones, they personally wouldn't give two ****s, but millions of people that love the Ramones and Deify them can't all be wrong. They were certainly as good as people perpetuate they were. The Clash had their own staple on their music also and didn't change their sound as much as you perpetuate. But I love the Clash.