Queen Boo

Oh ok, I see what you mean.

I do recommend checking out Duck Rock though, it's like Epcot's World Showcase if it was a weird, cheesy 80s new wave album with Trevor Horn production and Thomas Dolby synths and each track was a different pavilion. It's a trip.

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Queen Boo

The Damned were better and have a further reaching and more lasting influence, but they were nowhere near as big as The Sex Pistols.

The Sex Pistols were THE big watershed moment for punk rock as a major force in popular culture and sure their music was only part of the reason why, their image, their publicity stunts and Sid Vicious being Sid Vicious were all major contributing factors to their lasting legacy.

But putting all of that aside they still have one really good if overhyped album to their name so there's that.

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Queen Boo

Yes I agree that more rock stars should dress like pirates and I mean that sincerely.

And you're right about indie, I think one reason indie rock started dying off is because people got tired of seeing all these scrawny white dudes not putting even a tiny bit of effort into their visual presentation. One of the things I miss the most about the 70s and 80s is the showmanship, then the 90s came around and it wasn't cool to look like you care anymore.

Image has always been an important part of music whether people want to admit it or not, it's one but certainly not the only reason pop and hip hop are the most relevant genres today because the representation is so much more diverse, everybody's had their fill of white guys in ill-fitting polo shirts by now.

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The Batlord

It's kind of shoddy but it works as an aesthetic.

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SGR

Since when has punk concerned itself with aesthetics?

Queen Boo

Seriously?

Since day 1.

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The Batlord

Whenever I read old punk history and they reject some potential band member simply cause they don't look cool enough there's absolutely no difference in how they come across than when it's hair bands doing the same thing. They just sound like insufferable morons.

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SGR

I've always just found it ironic that punk as a genre, which in some way is about not caring about convention, conformity or appearance, occupied itself with image and aesthetic. Not all punk bands did - but many of the famous ones did for sure. Surely Malcolm McLaren's influence in the form of the Pistols and their image fueled much of what people (including nascent bands) believed being "punk" was.

Not totally applicable, but I think MES fired one of his bandmates because he didn't shave. He fired another for ordering a salad. (probably all just excuses)

SGR

Ya, I get that. I get the origin and the purpose and it makes sense. Fashion doesn't need to be about conformity.

But like Bats said, when it gets to the point where potential band members are getting rejected because of their appearance or how they present themselves, their necessary expressions of individuality become a conformity all on its own, doesn't it?

I think the Manic Street Preachers hit on a more sustainable formula - political confrontational lyrics, with the allowance of as much individual expression and aesthetic as each member desired.



Regardless, I think punk evolved into its true form with post-punk. It lost some of its political impact, but in return, it birthed a lot unique bands and albums who tread a massive amount of creative ground. No hairspray, hair dye, or piercings necessary.

SGR

"Evolved" may have not been the correct word. I was going for a poorly conceived Pokemon/DBZ analogy.

I don't think it became less political, per se, but I don't think any post-punk band had the political impact of say, the Pistols or the Clash, at least in terms of popular consciousness. I also think that politics and/or political messaging is more closely tied to punk than to post-punk. Not quite a necessity, but a very frequent accompaniment. Not quite as frequent with post-punk.