cardboard adolescent

wow, that post made me swoon a bit. i wish everyone i ran into had something to say about situationism.

however, you did forget to mention the fall for still active punk bands.

also, there is the possibility which i don't necessary subscribe to but still recognize that perhaps both sonic youth and madonna sell purely on the basis of image, but that a band like sonic youth appears to have better staying power because they need to develop a strong, loyal (elitist) fan base to support them which grows over the years because of its cult status/intellectual prestige/outsiderness whereas a pop group can simply ride the mainstream wave and gain temporary, widespread popularity. i personally don't think it's completely true, the overtones on some sonic youth songs send chills down my spine like no pop song i've ever heard, but i think there probably is a degree of truth to it. in a way we're all drawn to the images artists project to us, and the authenticity of any of them is questionable.

Meph1986

Who cares?

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asshat

Jesus H. Christ, finding the first punk band is a hell of a lot easier than that. How did we end up talking philosophy anyway?

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asshat

.....You could have proved it's futility in less than two sentences. I'm glad we still have people that make music not fun anymore.

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Gavin B.

You're right about the Fall... how could I have possibly forgetten their longevity? Sonic Youth has always been fascinated with the otherness of things, which may explain their appeal to post modern types. Their music is the most visceral of any band I've ever heard live and I usually suffer from a couple days of aftershocks when I hear them live.

I understand that there is an anti-intellectual bent among modern day punk rockers but they don't understand the punk attitude. John Lydon was and still is a cogent political polemicist and critic of the music business. And Lydon never was shy about discussing his music in an intellectual context.

John Lydon interviewed in 2007:

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There are two types of music: the first type is the blues and the second type is all the other stuff.
Townes Van Zandt

nickn

dude i relay think punk rock started way before the ramones and sex pistols and all that. Bands like the Kingsmen and The Sonics and these 60s garage bands that played simple chords were relay cool and influenced alot of bands because of their short simple writing. You would know the kinksmen because they wrote the song louie louie. you might think im crazy. but after that there were bands like the velvet underground iggy pop the new york dolls and MC5 in the new york underground that were the ones that influenced all the club bands like the ramones.
As for post punk that's just bull**** any genre that has the word post before it is just a different kind of music inspired by the music before it. Its kind of that point where the music is to different to call the same thing.

Grit

Sex Pistols were a boy band, created by a record label to look punk. If you ask me the origin was the MC5.

Urban Hat€monger ?

Influenced punk but had nothing to do with it. Using your logic that would make Kraftwerk an Acid House band or any other electronica genre band.

Then what term of reference do you suggest calling music that came after punk that wasn't punk but was influenced by it?

Post punk means just that, it came after punk, it wasn't punk but it was influenced by it. It isn't a stupid term at all. Just because using the term 'post' might sound stupid to you in another context in another genre doesn't mean that using it in this context does.

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Freebase Dali

Drunk post nuked.

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lucifer_sam

to me the origins of punk existed long before it was commodified into a unitary movement. bands like the Stooges, Velvet Underground & MC5 helped propel the music community outside of its inorganic, messy arena rock of the 1970s.

while bands like the Sex Pistols, the Ramones & the Clash were certainly instrumental in developing the 'punk' theme into a movement, they represent to me nothing more than a stepping stone in the path of an inevitable return to musical roots. and they certainly weren't alone. Television, Richard Hell and the Voidoids, Wire, the Damned, Johnny Thunders & many more were there at the same time and rarely receive anywhere near the same credit as the aforementioned three.

to suggest that there was a definite "first" punk band or, alternatively, a "most important" punk band seems to be along the same lines of exactly what those artists were trying to eschew with the music industry.

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