Not another 'state of hip-hop today' thread
 

Read this article, chances are you'll agree with something in it.

Simon Reynolds's Notes on the noughties: When will hip-hop hurry up and die? | Music | guardian.co.uk

I'm surprised to find myself almost agreeing with the dismissal of underground hip-hop, outside of the 10-15 'essentials' I have accrued I find some of the big hitters in that scene to be portentous and backwards. The purveyors of underground hip-hop 'hybrid music' I have got time for though.

Thoughts?

Sounded like your typical "Things were so much better back in the day" rants that make me want to puke out my blackened guts. OK I agree with him about the current state of mainstream hip hop but I've always thought like that and so have a lot of people, "Mainstream hip hop is more about self image than lyrics!" ZOMG really!??!?! Even his little pathetic rant on underground hip hop was dumbfounded and had no real substance to it. He couldn't even be kind enough to name a few hip hop groups from this decade. 2009 the death of hip hop? Don't make me laugh, here's a list of hip hop albums from 2009 I have found myself enjoying:

Gift of Gab - Escape 2 Mars
Random - Mega Ran 9
CunninLynguists - Strange Journey Vol. 1 & 2
P.O.S. - Never Better
Bike For Three -More Heart Than Brains
Busdriver - Jhelli Beam
Brother Ali - The Truth Is Here
Sleep (Of Oldominion) - Hesitation Wounds
Classified - Self-Explanatory
DOOM - Born Like This
CYNE - Water For Mars
Cradle Orchestra - Velvet Ballads
Audible Mainframe - Transients
Mos Def -The Ecstatic
mc chris - Part Six Part One
K'Naan - Troubadour
Phrase - Clockwork
True Live - Found Lost
Why? - Eskimo Snow


People really need to be more positive.

I agree the genre is presently stagnant,but it's by no stretch of the imagination finished with.For a start it's commercially as big as ever.

i think you totally missed the point of the article Pete, it was in response to a 'hip-hop is dead' rant, published in the New Yorker; and i wouldn't call the few lines referring to underground hip-hop a 'pathetic rant', just an observation, it's an insular scene.

And the whole thrust of it was about solutions but you obviously missed that too - 'when will hip-hop hurry up and die'? I.e. when will the black youth who make this stuff that gets hoovered up by boring mugs of all denominations start to get fed up of it, when they move on THEN things will get interesting in the mainstream again and I won't have to listen to ****ing Aesop Rock up on his pedestal spitting scathing rants and call for consciousness that I can't even bloody understand anyway.

You are the obscure mixtape-wielding naysayer in this dialogue man, I'm fed up of backpacker hip-hop for now, I've got my good ones to cherish. oh and btw the new DOOM was shite

Hip hop is doing fine.

I actually haven't heard any 09 hip-hop yet, so I'll have to check some of these out. Props for da list.

I concur.

To add some to this, (even though I disagree with one or two from your list)

Brother Ali - Us
Felt - Felt 3: A Tribute To Rosie Perez
KiD CuDi - Man On The Moon: The End of Day
Blue Scholars - Oof! EP
Tech N9ne - K.O.D.
Danny! - Where Is Danny?
Zion I - The Takeover
The Grouch & Eligh - Say G&E
BK-One (with Benzilla) - Radio Do Canibal (one of my favorites this year, I REALLY recommend this)
KRS-One & Buckshot - Survival Skills
XV - Everybody's Nobody (Mixtape) (favorite mixtape of the year)
Krizz Kaliko - Genius
Lupe Fiasco - Enemy Of The State: A Love Story (Mixtape)
mc chris - Part Six Part Two
mc chris - Part Six Part Three
Wale - Attention Deficit
Raekwon - OB4CL pt. II
Method Man & Redman - Blackout! 2

And I know I'm forgetting some.

Add to that:
D-Sisive - Let the Children Die
Fashawn - Boy Meets World
Raekwon - Only Built 4 Cuban Linx... Pt II

Hip hop started in the parties, nobody was saying it was dead when they were doing the "pee wee herman"

Snap/party rap ain't nothing new. When people get sick enough of it you'll have a bunch of new artists that are the opposite of it, thats how it goes.

The new doom album goes hard too.

Can't believe I forgot the Fashawn album.

I disagree about DOOM, but we'll get nowhere with that conversation.

How come?
It's not like its a vast departure from his previous stuff.

That's the problem. :)
I'm not a very big MF Doom fan.

I can definitely understand people not liking doom. I just don't get people who like his other material and then act like he fell off with the new album.

I thought Born Like This was dreadful. Lackluster production + underwhelming rhymes = wackness.

I see his point, but I don't really agree with it. As a whole, yeah, hip-hop is declining- but I think if you keep your eyes open, you find stuff that's as creative as ever. For example, I'm a big fan of the incorporation of live instrumentals or unique genre-transcending albums (P.O.S. 'Never Better'). Also, a lot of the guys who haven't had fame yet still have some very refreshing things to say. It's far from dead, or dying- in my opinion.

the state of hip hop. that's funny, they refer to the culture but talk about only the music, what about the other elements?

If you think rap now isn't as good as it was 10 or 20 years ago you're just looking in the wrong places. First of all get your head out of the mainstream, then get your head out of america. There is great rappers all over the world from new york to melbourne, adelaide, london, tokyo, paris. People need to stop being so narrow minded, 50cent, kanye west and nas aren't the be all and end all of this genre.

Added to all those


Jay-Z- Blueprint 3
Murs- Murs For President
Busta Rhymes- Back on my B.S.
Wale- Attention Deficit
Clipse- Till my Casket Drops
Rakim- The Seventh Seal
Eminem- Relapse
Witness- .45 Sweetheart
LTC- It's Just a Demo
Didn't Wu Tang's 8 Diagrams come out this year too?



But yeah, the writer of the article tried to stabalize his arguement by stating all the things people would say against his statement. Only he never really explained how they would be wrong. It is over-nostalgia. I can't stand when so many supposed hip-hop fans look at musical proggression with such disdain. The stuff that's being put out (avante-garde style hip-hop) is really great music. It doesn't get any simpler. And who is this guy or anyone who thinks they can declare a genre of music dead?As long as there are still artists putting music out, and fans to gobble it up, who's to say it's dead? Because of the loose definition, every year some pretentious writer is going to declare genre A dead. It's the curse of disco.

8 Diagrams was a few years ago, but I didn't think it was all that great to begin with.

Are you serious? It really doesn't feel a few years old.
And, are you serious? That jaunt was bangin'. Especially that John Lennon cover.

No I see what you're saying. And yeah, a couple gems on there made the other turds sparkle a bit for me I suppose.

This. It really is a departure from his older work, because it feels like he didn't try as much or something. It just can't compare. I know hardly anyone agrees with me, but it's true.

But enough about that. This is the first rant I've ever read, are they all like this? What's the point of bitching about how a genre needs to change? Instead, it would be much more productive on his part to go find good albums that have been released since 2004. And if you don't want to go with super underground not well known albums, look at bands like Gorillaz or Madvillain or M.I.A. I don't think many would argue that those are bad projects, and most know at least 2 of them.

Also, saying this:

right after writing:

completely destroys any credibility he may have had. I've said before and I'll say it again, I like Lil' Wayne. But I don't think anyone on this forum can explain to me how Lil Wayne was a compelling new personality while TI and Young Jeezy aren't original.

There's a lot of really great hip hop out there, but for some reason people tend to be more trusting of the mass media to tell them what the current state of the genre is than they are with any other genre.

Hip hop is going to die in a few years just like disco did in the early 80s. Well it won't die, but I think it's going to be supplanted by electronic dance music, electropop, and and even rock in the 2010s, and go down the same path that rock did in the 90s, and ghetto/urban fashion is going to go down the toilet. Can't wait for the 2010s! =D

I thought rock had a resurgence in the 90's, with the whole grunge and alternative rock scene gaining popularity.

"Ghetto" fashion has been going down for a couple years. Look at how the new rappers dress, they all wear skinny jeans and plad.

You really think all the current fans of rap are gonna switch to electropop?

A good amount probably will, at least most of the female "fans" will.

Don't worry, the hip hop culture is a lot different than the disco culture.

lol

hip hop (the culture) will probably never die. And i can't see rap music dying either. There's still thousands of great rappers out there who do what they're supposed to do rather than make songs about bling and whores with guns and coke. Best way to think of it is modern day poets and as long as there is one kid listening to the rappers who are actually talented then hip hop will live on.

"This is Hip Hop, a sick mans medicine it's blood, sweat, tears and love and adrenaline... and it just gives me that feeling!"

The problem with the articles is sensationalism, when you read them they're both pretty reasonable.

The thing to keep in mind is, when they say a genre is dead or dying, nobody is saying that it isn't producing good music. But that hip hop is gradually uncoupling from the zeitgeist of pop-culture, and I think for that reason you have to look exclusively at the mainstream when you want you're talking about this stuff, because the underground is never going to drive popular culture the way the mainstream did during it's heyday.

Hip hop is splintering and evolving, and really has ascended to a meta-genre status alongside rock, the sonic possibilities are so diverse, one of the differences that it hasn't been subjected to so many pointless genre divisions as rock has. It's never going to completely fade away as long as people enjoy the sound of rapping.

What's wrong with rapping about bling, whores, guns or coke?

What's not wrong with it? It's pointless and meaningless. Rap is an artform the goal was to break the mould not fit around the same crap just to make yourself millions. Gangster rap can be entertaining the same way vin diesel movies are entertaining but they're runining rap. Everyone thinks it's about black gangsters, it was never about that. Intelligent lyricists are naming themselves after drug dealers just so they can make more money. It's disgusting.

Don't get me wrong there is gangster rappers that i liked but only if they are talented as lyricists (eg big pun, royce 5'9 ect). But even when they are talented as lyricists they are wasting their talent. Rap (like all music) is a way to express yourself. When they start talking about guns and coke they're talking about stuff they've seen in movies they're acting tough throwing up a facade to keep the idiots buying their music.

Rap is there to express thoughts, feelings and opinions. Not to brag about your chrome rims and how awesome a drug dealer you are. If they're so great at being gangsters they wouldn't need to rap for a career. They're all fake and they are pissing all over the hip hop culture.

You want to know how to tell if someone is a good rapper? read their lyrics. If they mean something written down then great. If they mean nothing written down then i don't give a **** how catchy the song is, they have failed as a rapper.


"You're only making them dance, you're not moving them."

do you know what cognitive dissonance is? gangster rap was and is essential to hip hop, everything that preceded pioneers like NWA, Kool G Rap, and to a lesser extent EPMD is not necessarily the end-all be-all of rap. these mc's were the catalysts for those blaxploitation films you're talking about, they provided the stereotypes that the middle and upper classes try to emulate so desperately. their lives were filled with inner city violence and narcotic trafficing, so for you to say that they are betraying some banal, idealistic notion of hip hop that you hold by rhyming about their own experiences is ridiculous. the subject matter of a rapper's music is immaterial, it is how well they convey their message that determines their worth.

I don't even know how to respond to the stupidity of that statement.

So at least you two agree on that - and so do I. Good lyricism is key.

You don't have to be involved with those kinds of things to find them interesting or intriguing.

There is no concrete "THIS IS WHAT RAP IS ABOUT" standard, that's bullshit.

If you can only rap about things that you have truly experienced and been a part of, then the genre has become limited and therefore sucks.

You're stuck on "people rap gangsta rap to make money," which is totally irrelevant.

Gangsta rap isn't ruining rap. It's the lack of creativity by rappers.

There's no topic that should be excluded from music. Especially rap.

I agree with Jester in some respects. I got just as tired out of "bitches and hoes" stuff as the next guy or gal around here, but in my opinion it's all about the way they deliver that package.

What I dislike is the guys who boast- for example, about how much money they have: "I've got so much money I make it rain. When times is tough I get the quarters out and make it hail. When I got some nose candy I 'hit the slopes' and make it snow". Yawwwwwn;

However, drugs, guns, and women can be very interesting topics. A former dealer sharing a story about himself on the streets slinging rocks can be interesting. A guy having an encounter with a trick can be interesting. Atomsphere "Always Coming Back Home To You" at one point focuses on Slug being handed a gun from some guy, and not knowing what to do with it. Stories- I like story time.

Although, I have a tendency to tune out lyrics lately... I can like a song for a month before I ever really pay attention to what it's about. Goes to show that for some people rhyme, word play, production, and beat are just as important as content.

Well, the ego and the brag is a huge part of the hip hop culture.

As far as gangsta rap goes, I just think that dismissing a topic because it's become abused is stupid.

edit: By the way, I've seen some of your posts, you seem to be pretty big on Atmosphere. Dope, man.

Your definitely right, I can't discount that. I just find myself less interested in the brass nature of some guys. I think that the over the top **** can kill it sometimes (not the good kind of killing it haha). I mean, watch this:



Yeah, definitely all about Atmosphere... pretty much single-handedly revitalized my interest in hip-hop/rap about 6 year ago.

Well, to be fair, there are people who can make anything look stupid.

What's your favorite Atmosphere album?

Funny you ask, I was just mulling this over the other day. Each album brings different themes to the table: introspective, angry, upbeat, dark, etc. So, it's easy for my "favorite" Atmosphere album to change depending on my mood, my environment, the season, and so on. Slug and Ant are both consistent in that they never totally fall flat for me, and they are constantly adapting and changing. Ant's beats jump all around- from percussion to piano to soul to this to that...

If I'm not dodging the question like I did ^there ;)... I guess my favorite is probably Lucy Ford or God Loves Ugly. 1a and 1b, really. Seven's Travels, despite having some standout tracks, has never really ranked as high with me. The more recent albums are great, just a peg or two below those two for me. There are some great EPs, but can't compare those to the full lengths.

How about yourself?