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View Poll Results: today's rap, 90's, or 80's rap?
today's rap 21 26.25%
90's rap/hip hop 47 58.75%
80's rap 8 10.00%
NONE DANG IT 4 5.00%
Voters: 80. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 07-20-2010, 10:25 AM   #61 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Janszoon View Post
Aren't you another one who would have been too young to remember?

It's true that hip-hop evolved over the course of the 90s, just like it has over the 80s and the 00s, but Tupac's death wasn't some big turning point that caused things to change overnight. There was some great rap music, and some utter garbage, released both in the early 90s and the late 90s.
Yeah I wasn't very old when it happened, but I didn't need to be either as the historical record of the time is captured in the music. 2Pac and Biggie's death lead to the end of the whole east coast-west coast battle that had spurred rap artists on to top each other. It also left west coast rap dormant for many years after 2Pac's death and the scene really hasn't been the same since. You also saw southern rap become more prominent and gangsta rap became more mainstream and popular.

Things didn't change overnight, but the deaths of two of the biggest forces in rap definitely had an impact on the scene. And yes, I agree that their was good rap both before and after 2Pac's death.
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Old 07-20-2010, 11:10 AM   #62 (permalink)
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Yeah I wasn't very old when it happened, but I didn't need to be either as the historical record of the time is captured in the music. 2Pac and Biggie's death lead to the end of the whole east coast-west coast battle that had spurred rap artists on to top each other. It also left west coast rap dormant for many years after 2Pac's death and the scene really hasn't been the same since. You also saw southern rap become more prominent and gangsta rap became more mainstream and popular.

Things didn't change overnight, but the deaths of two of the biggest forces in rap definitely had an impact on the scene. And yes, I agree that their was good rap both before and after 2Pac's death.
See, I think if you had been there and aware of music at the time you would have a pretty different take on it, as I do. You speak as if the scene 2Pac was a part of was the totality of hip-hop at the time but it wasn't, not even close. Things weren't as simple and linear as reading about them after the fact would have you believe. And frankly west coast rap continued to be huge throughout the late 90s so I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that it was somehow dormant.
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Old 07-20-2010, 11:30 AM   #63 (permalink)
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See, I think if you had been there and aware of music at the time you would have a pretty different take on it, as I do. You speak as if the scene 2Pac was a part of was the totality of hip-hop at the time but it wasn't, not even close. Things weren't as simple and linear as reading about them after the fact would have you believe. And frankly west coast rap continued to be huge throughout the late 90s so I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that it was somehow dormant.
I'm not saying it was the totality, just no doubt a large part of it (and one of the most well-remembered parts of 90's rap). From what I've heard west coast rap declined after 2Pac's death, though I may be wrong. What are some of the notable west coast rappers after 2Pac's death?

I'm not saying 2Pac was everything hip hop, just he was an important part to it's progression in the 90's and his death changed that progression.
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Old 07-20-2010, 12:03 PM   #64 (permalink)
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I'm not saying it was the totality, just no doubt a large part of it (and one of the most well-remembered parts of 90's rap). From what I've heard west coast rap declined after 2Pac's death, though I may be wrong. What are some of the notable west coast rappers after 2Pac's death?
I'm not sure how to respond to this because I'm not just talking about rappers, I'm talking about the style of music in general. West coast bigshots like Dre and Snoop continued to be big into the late 90s. Meanwhile the hip-hop coming out of the west coast diversified to include classic weirdness from the likes of Dan the Automator and Anticon. Note that I'm not saying that I think there was more going on with the west coast during this time than the east, quite the opposite actually. I'd argue that the east had more going on all the way from the beginning to the end of the 90s.
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Old 07-20-2010, 12:27 PM   #65 (permalink)
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I'm not sure how to respond to this because I'm not just talking about rappers, I'm talking about the style of music in general. West coast bigshots like Dre and Snoop continued to be big into the late 90s. Meanwhile the hip-hop coming out of the west coast diversified to include classic weirdness from the likes of Dan the Automator and Anticon. Note that I'm not saying that I think there was more going on with the west coast during this time than the east, quite the opposite actually. I'd argue that the east had more going on all the way from the beginning to the end of the 90s.
I thought Dr. Dre and Snoop Dogg had become rather mediocre by this point. And didn't Dr. Dre leave the west coast or something at this time?

Obviously there was a few sporadic artists here and there, but I don't think it even comes close to rivaling the likes of 2Pac, Cypress Hill, Ice Cube, N.W.A., Del tha Funkee Homosapien, etc.
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Old 07-20-2010, 12:40 PM   #66 (permalink)
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I thought Dr. Dre and Snoop Dogg had become rather mediocre by this point. And didn't Dr. Dre leave the west coast or something at this time?
I'm not sure if Dr. Dre left the west coast, I've never heard that before, but he released his second classic album in 1999 and where ever he was living he's still from the west coast. Snoop was always mediocre. He was only great when he teamed up with Dre so, yeah, his late 90s output was spotty because he worked with Dre less. That doesn't change the fact that he was still a big superstar in the late 90s.

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Obviously there was a few sporadic artists here and there, but I don't think it even comes close to rivaling the likes of 2Pac, Cypress Hill, Ice Cube, N.W.A., Del tha Funkee Homosapien, etc.
2Pac was (a) born and raised in NYC and (b) extremely overrated so he doesn't score any points for the west coast in the early 90s for me. Cypress Hill, Ice Cube and Del tha Funkee Homosapien were all still around making music in the late 90s, and N.W.A.'s classic era was in the 80s, so I don't really see how any of them figure into the debate at all.
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Old 07-20-2010, 12:46 PM   #67 (permalink)
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I'm not sure if Dr. Dre left the west coast, I've never heard that before, but he released his second classic album in 1999 and where ever he was living he's still from the west coast. Snoop was always mediocre. He was only great when he teamed up with Dre so, yeah, his late 90s output was spotty because he worked with Dre less. That doesn't change the fact that he was still a big superstar in the late 90s.
Ok, well I'm not interested in 'superstars' and neither are you obviously, since you listed some more obscure rap artists in your last post.

A similar analogy can be for AC/DC. They continued to sell in the late 80's and 90's, but I consider them basically a 70's act because I couldn't care less about what they've released post-1980.


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2Pac was (a) born and raised in NYC and (b) extremely overrated so he doesn't score any points for the west coast in the early 90s for me. Cypress Hill, Ice Cube and Del tha Funkee Homosapien were all still around making music in the late 90s, and N.W.A.'s classic era was in the 80s, so I don't really see how any of them figure into the debate at all.
Nice job contradicting yourself. You want to rule out N.W.A. because their prime was in the 80's, but then you want to include the artists I listed who's prime were clearly in the early 90's and not the later 90's. 2Pac rapped specifically about the west coast and its merits, making him a shoe-in for the west coast scene. It doesn't matter if you like him or not, he still was important to rap.
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Old 07-20-2010, 12:56 PM   #68 (permalink)
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Ok, well I'm not interested in 'superstars' and neither are you obviously, since you listed some more obscure rap artists in your last post.
Okay, so why are we talking about 2Pac then?

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Nice job contradicting yourself. You want to rule out N.W.A. because their prime was in the 80's, but then you want to include the artists I listed who's prime were clearly in the early 90's and not the later 90's. 2Pac rapped specifically about the west coast and its merits, making him a shoe-in for the west coast scene. It doesn't matter if you like him or not, he still was important to rap.
I guess I could see where you'd think I was contradicting myself regarding Ice Cube since I agree he was better in the early 90s. With the rest I don't see any contradiction. Cypress Hill was always a band I was meh about and I definitely thought their late 90s music was equal to their stuff from the early 90s. And I'd argue that Del tha Funkee Homosapien hit his peak in the early 00s so that kind of takes him out of the equation altogether.
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Old 07-20-2010, 01:00 PM   #69 (permalink)
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Okay, so why are we talking about 2Pac then?
Because the music he released wasn't noteworthy simply because he was a superstar, it also was considered monumental music. Snoop Dogg was just releasing mediocre albums and making money, nothing groundbreaking.


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I guess I could see where you'd think I was contradicting myself regarding Ice Cube since I agree he was better in the early 90s. With the rest I don't see any contradiction. Cypress Hill was always a band I was meh about and I definitely thought their late 90s music was equal to their stuff from the early 90s. And I'd argue that Del tha Funkee Homosapien hit his peak in the early 00s so that kind of takes him out of the equation altogether.
Again, opinions. Most people who actually like Cypress Hill will say that their first two are clearly their strongest. Same with Del, from what I've heard most think his debut is the best he's done (which I agree with).
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Old 07-20-2010, 01:13 PM   #70 (permalink)
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Because the music he released wasn't noteworthy simply because he was a superstar, it also was considered monumental music.
I never really got the Tupac thing either. He seemed to hedge his bets really well and be a "thug" when he was the most emotional sap going.

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Snoop Dogg was just releasing mediocre albums and making money, nothing groundbreaking.
According to Dre, he was the George Washington for black people. I don't know what the hell that means, but snoop isn't mediocre. When he's on, he's on. But this is the equivalent of saying a singer sucks unless his band is good. Chris Cornell fronted Audio Slave for a time. He wasn't mediocre.


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Again, opinions. Most people who actually like Cypress Hill will say that their first two are clearly their strongest. Same with Del, from what I've heard most think his debut is the best he's done (which I agree with).
Del's first album was barely Del. I like "catch a bad one" (if thats from his first) but thanks not who he was. Thats Del aping west coast gangsta trash and I think he's much, much better now.
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