Enlighten me.
 

So, I pretty much hate most hip-hop. I can appreciate Busta Rhymes doing his million-miles-an-hour thing, I loved and still love Eminem up to and including Eminem show, I love Professor Elemental, K.Flay is receiving my interest, and Deltron is one of my favourite things ever. Will Smith makes me smile when he shakes the room because he's funny and makes you grin, and Sway and Roots manuva have my eternal respect.

But beyond that, I really don't have a rosy view of the genre. Dre's rapping comes off as clumsy at best, and his subject matter is asinine. I can't listen to NWA without just wondering what the point is behind the bravado and self-aggrandisement, Kreayshawn screams vapid and featureless to me through a megaphone capable of levelling cities, Canibus is thematically interesting at first but its a swift movement from first listen, to the realisation that for all he crows about his intellect, he's unable to string together a coherent story or dialogue, so his intelligence marketing comes off as uninspired, like he's chucking in random words from a textbook to try and sound academic. Snoop Dogg bores me to tears and its subject matter has never been interesting enough to bother with.

Cypress Hill make a good stab at having a running theme with interesting music, but really its just a vocal style and beyond that there isn't much to recommend it to me.

And yet, the type of rap that recieves the most critical acclaim is the above, the dehumanising, the self aggrandising, the drug-driven, that which glorifies violence, reduces other human beings to nothing, which makes its progenitor appear nothing less of a caricature than a photoshopped bodybuilder, too large for life, too unreal, too perfect within their own mind to be taken seriously. To listen to most rappers and rap fans, you'd get the impression that their lives consist entirely of toking up, drivebys, champagne, blowjobs and being rich but doing nothing except the aforementioned with the money. Why? WHY? What about that subject matter appeals to people? Where is the dialogue, the story, the artistic representation, the movement of the listener to any position OTHER than baseless endless hero worship?

What, in short, is the POINT of all the posturing, drug use, and self-aggrandisement in rap?
For every concept album where Deltron details the struggles of humanity versus an overminded corporation, there are ten, twenty, a hundred rappers ballin mad honeys and drinking champagne. For every Professor elemental, rapping with characters and telling interesting stories, creating fantasy worlds and smiling along with the listener, there are dozens, scores, thousands of rappers toking up at home and shooting at the neighbours.

Its gone beyond the point of caricature, for every rapper who treats their subject matter as being 'the streets' or 'the lifestyle' to be telling anything like the truth, you'd expect an urban apocalypse to be occuring every time you stepped outside your door in america! You'd expect it to look like Biff Tannen was running the casino in 1985 to hear most rappers talk, if you assumed they were all telling the truth!


What am I missing? Where is the interesting rap, the stuff that broaches new subjects, new topics, the rap that creates characters and places them in situations the listener KNOWS can't be real? Where is the rap that tells STORIES? Where is the rap that makes the listener smile at ideas more complex, more interesting than pussy and weed? Where is the rap that treats debauchery and a captive audience, as more than a license to make out as if they're god? WHERE IS IT? TELL ME!

As examples, where are the rap songs about racing cars? Prog Rock, Space Rock, Surf, even jazz has songs about this most fundamental, common experience, yet I've never heard a rapper describe an engine roar, let alone a battle of man and machine! What about rap songs about mythology, gods, monsters, the unknown, the ethereal, the alien, the spiritual? I've heard some terrible attempts at broaching these subjects from all manner of genres including rap, but I've never heard rap make these themes work when its bothered to try, whereas rock and roll has Black Dog for starters, and only gets BETTER, if more outlandish, when it starts singing about Thor, and starts yelling about folk legend!

I'm not sure what you're looking for here. Are you only interested in the lyrics?

Lyrics, melody, everything. I just want some rap that is out of the ordinary. No self aggrandisement, no bitches, no gangland violence, no drugs.

Melody would be great, fusing styles together would be even better, prog-rap or something.

Well, I can't say there's any kind of prog element in this but how about some K-the-I? He's certainly unique and as far as I'm aware doesn't rap about the stuff you're complaining about.

http://www.google.com/url?url=http:/...khfowg&cad=rja

I used to really like these guys alot. They're the exact opposite of gangster rap. All of the guys are devout christians who sing positive uplifting lyrics with a message. opened for gangstarr when i saw him in 96.

Try some of this **** out chief.

Like always... you have something good to share. Going to look into this guy...

All great artists. Although, I haven't looked into much of Busdriver's discography.

Anyways, GuitarBizzare, I suggest you check out either the Anti-Pop Consortium or Dalek.

^ Dalek seconded, specifically his album Absence.

Yeah, he's definitely worth a listen. Some very good stuff there.

The amount of rap that doesn't reference those things you detest is so large it's pointless to list specific examples.

It would be like you asking "name me some good music", why don't you just take the time to discover it on your own?

Would you happen to have a link to one of his albums? I can't seem to find Broken Love Letter nor Yesterday, Today, and Tomorrow.

^This.

Just take a quick look through the Rap/Hip-Hop Recommendation thread.

Thread is not complete without some Mr. Lif:




Also, P.O.S.:

You seem to be implying that good rap is rap that doesn't reference the things I listed. Thankyou for the vote of confidence in my view on the matter, but seriously, get off your high horse. Its not just with me, I know this thread is inflammatory, its meant to be, because people love to argue and thats how I wanted to get some debate going, but you seem to strut around this section of the boards like you're hot **** and nobody elses opinion is worth a damn and its real old already.

Also, are you seriously telling someone on a music forum to go find music themselves? Does that not somewhat defeat the entire point of a music board? Is the point of a music board to have some kind of circlejerk where everyone agrees on what is and isn't worth listening to, everyone knows and listens to the same bands and artists, and everyone bows to the opinion of the ****ing hivemind? Hell no it isn't. I made this thread and asked for some interesting rap. I'm getting it from a lot of people, but I sure as **** don't see you contributing, so why don't you shut your mouth and start linking something, and being constructive instead of just ****ting on everything in this section of the boards as if your opinion is the only one that matters?

BD, did you check out anyone's recommendations?

Jansz, I've been listening. Nothing has jumped out at me yet. Doom is lyrical interesting but the way he raps makes it hard to follow his stories without paying close attention to the lyrics. There isn't enough contrast in his delivery to really sell the story. If you listen to splendid by professor elemental, it has a lot of hooks, you can listen to it without being intent on it. Same with something like role model by eminem, where the lines are so forward and so purposeful they sorta make you listen even if youre doing something else.

Try this dude, it's kind of influenced by alt-rock, and **** is it powerful. Like I actually have teared up to this song a few times.

So are you looking for us to tell you what to like and why you should like it, or are you just venting your complaints about mainstream hip-hop? Everybody likes different things. You really shouldn't base YOUR opinions on those of others. It seems like you find something to dislike about every artists mentioned. I hate to break it to you, but no music can satisfy everyone's tastes all of the time. Just go find what you like and listen to it. If you find something that you dislike, ignore it. Pretty simple bud.

I'm looking for advice on rap, because thus far little has sufficiently piqued my interest as to make me download it and keep it. So far I appreciate a lot of what's been posted, but I dont identify with it, so I'm asking for more recommendations and clarifying my stance as we go along. That's kind of how finding new music works. One person makes a request, someone else recommends, if the first person doesn't like it they say why and the other person makes another suggestion.

Or have I just so offended the entire hip hop board with this thread that the point is lost amidst yours and matious attempts at making pithy comments? I think its pretty obvious what the thread is meant to achieve, personally. I mean, there's a repeated question in the OP.

Also, every artist mentioned? I've made one post about the recs I've received so far and you obviously haven't even read it. Go back, try again.

Why does it have to be all about the lyrics? Why not focus on the song as a whole?

I honestly don't see how this thread is any different than The Rap & Hip-Hop Recommendation Thread that already exists, except for the fact that you're seeking attention for your views whilst shooting down everyone else's. If you don't like rap then don't listen to it. Trying to force yourself to like things that you don't like is pretty useless.

Why not look at existing threads?

I'm sure your well aware that my choice in artists isn't based on group masturbation

You want links to artists that aren't gang /drug related? Uh okay (this is me getting back on my steed btw) how bout most alternative rap?

How about anything from rhymesayers, def jux, anticon etc? How about you just take 2 ****ing seconds to look and you'll discover it.

It doesn't, didn't realise id put across that impression. If you listen to the two songs I mentioned they're both musically strong too, which is of course a key element. If you Google "intergalactic Halloween" you should also find an awesomely musical mashup of beauties boys vs Danny elfman. Perhaps that helps narrow it down some?

How about something like "Danzon" by Control Machete? It's a fusion of styles, and unless you speak spanish, you can just listen to it for the overall sound instead of getting distracted by the lyrics.

I'll have to listen tomorrow, since I'm not on the comp anymore, but it wouldn't be the first time I've listened to rap in languages I don't speak, so it could be good.


Edit: That was actually awesome.

GuitarBizzare, don't you think you are being a bit picky? I mean, I understand having trouble liking a genre (believe me, I've struggled with liking metal -- I still do), but why not try being a bit more open-minded?

there is a difference between appreciating something while listening, and enjoying it enough to put it on again. The former is easy, all the suggestions so far have that. The latter, not so much.

Haha, I don't think GB is going to be impressed by anything suggested to him here. I think he just wants to make some kind of vague point about rap in general.
GB, since you like Deltron so much, maybe try out some other stuff by Dan the Automator. Also, Kno of Cunnyliguists' album "Death is Silent" gets into mythology a little bit but, man, nobody's rapping about D&D or other nerdy prog-rock **** as far as I know. At least not that would be up to your standards it seems.

Still, thanks for making this thread because now tons of my favorite rap songs are posted here in one convenient location.

If you like Deltron check out Viktor Vaughn, Dr Octogon, El-P.

Shabazz Palace is the only good rap album that will come out this year in all likelyhood, so if you want to be relatively current without any effort download that.

I'm glad I found this before things got out of hand. GB I'd love to help. Perhaps being a general music fan you would enjoy rappers with backing bands? Rhyming over guitar, drum, bass, and/or keyboards, etc.



Flobots are phenomenally under-rated. Don't bother with Handlebars, they have made leaps and stides. Flobots make me cry, they're so good sometimes. It's the violin player. She pulls my heartstrings...









You'd be pleasantly surprised how many great songs Afroman has... and Because I Got High isn't one of them, and I'm a stoner. Check him out. He plays guitar and raps on most of his songs...

Glad you liked it. I didn't realize the video cuts off before the song ends until just now but oh well. Control Machete are really good. A lot of their stuff mixes in somewhat traditional latin music at least to a degree.

Another spanish language band that might interest you is Cuban husband and wife rappers Obsesion. A lot of their music has a very strong jazz influence:

There are some artists that are considered nerd-core that would be right up his alley.

As nerdy as the songs Alphabet Aerobics and Chemical Chalisthenics are, I don't think Blackalicious can be schlepped into nerdcore category... but great picks.

Edit: Hey GB did you see my recommendations on the last page? What'd you think?

yeah I should have put a disclaimer about that. Blackalicious isn't really considered nerdcore but that song could fit into it.

Hmn, I've got a few suggestions that might work for you GB, though I'm not nearly as well versed as some people here are...

My problem is that hip hop's focus is on rhythm and lyrics, and I find that the music is rarely interesting enough to maintain my attention.

Ah, and racial/sexual slurs are very off-putting to me.

I think Demon Days is an amazing album, but that's about it (and I don't think it fully qualifies). Any suggestions for me?

I'm big into production and I tend to focus more on that side of things instead of the actual lyrics like most hip hop fans, I go back to the lyrics after the second listen to find out what metaphors, message and stories are being told.

you might like artists that use a live band to back their rapping.

Along the lines of The Roots, Gym Class Heroes. There are more but those two are just off the top of my head.

You may also like the hip hop artists that use jazz as their music to rap over such as Jay Elecontronica , Nujabes, I think Jay Dilla has a few track as well.

As far as Demon Days being Hip Hop, it is to me but I have a very broad definition of what hip hop consists of while others are very picky about it.

I don't think it needs to be as picky as they make it out to be.

A lot of the lyrics to these hip-hop artsist mean something. They are linked with drugs, guns, violence and sex because these are the re-occuring themes that have blighted their lives and they feel strongly about them.

These themes also sell well and bring in an audience who can relate to these artists in some way.

Pedestrian, I recommend the same to you as I did to GB on the bottom of page 3. Rappers with live bands.

lol I totally didn't see that post of yours or else I would have pointed her in that direction.