Kendrick Lamar on Big Sean's "Control" and Hip Hop Universe Goes Crazy

~~butthead aka 216~~ · 08-13-2013, 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mankycaaant

Eminem's a joke. Always has been, based on skills alone he never would have taken off had he not been white. He got the fanbase and hype he did because he was marketable as an underdog (I.E. the 8 mile)

Andre is not at all overrated, the guy has the most insane flow perhaps of all time the way he effortlessly strings complex lines together and they just float off his tongue is mesmerizing.

I don't think Illmatic or Reasonable Doubt are any better than GKMC, which are considered to be the two best works of Jay and Nas respectively. As for greatness being judged purely on who's been around the longest time, people who are absolutely terrible like DMX would be in the running.

If people are able to put Notorious BIG in their Top 5's after two albums, why not Kendrick?

As for this whole thing about 'classics' I don't buy into it. You're telling me just because one album is older than another it is better? If so Grandmaster Flash would never be knocked off the hip-hop totem pole. It's a ridiculous criteria to judge anything by. An album doesn't get any better after its release, it doesn't suddenly take on a life of its own and become something different so the age of it is irrelevant when discussing which is simply better.

As for Big K.R.I.T as an actual rapper he's as skilled as K.Dot, that's what I'm saying. K.R.I.T just hasn't had the breakout record yet to truly elevate him. But riddle me this, how is it that people with less extensive discographies like Biggie manage to skip your more equals better.

because biggies album had TIME to become classic. you gain and lose different perspectives when you have the luxury of time. plus the whole west coast/east coast feud at the time which became more of a pop culture thing than just a hip hop thing made him larger than life. kendrick isnt anybody in the large scheme of things in pop culture.

you are so off base with the stuff you say about classics. sure the material doesnt change but you are telling me that you have never viewed something differently 10 yrs after the fact?? ppl do all the time with many different things, like i said you get a broader perspective and aren't stuck in the moment anymore.

i know this site just had that big improvement topic about bein polite but i dunno what to even say about that bolded part. im just flabbergasted completely that those words would ever be typed or said by anybody ever. em's rhyme schemes and flow are only rivaled by nas imo. jesus just look at the tons and tons of huge eminem songs. if you cant see the incredible talent in a song like lose yourself then i just dont think you have any credibility talkin about rapping.

longevity IS impressive. it is impressive in any profession, to be able to remain good at something that is so hard to do for such a long period of time. even if there are flops, which is the case with almost anyone with a lot of time in any genre, its impressive. SSLP, MMLP, Encore, Relapse, Recovery, etc. i dont even like all of those albums, especially encore and relapse but dont hate on longevity if thats what you are doin

plus i hate how you are twisting my words and want you to stop. saying things like:

Quote:

As for greatness being judged purely on who's been around the longest time

and

Quote:

You're telling me just because one album is older than another it is better?

so what are you tryin to do, fabricate my argument in this discussion so yuo have something to argue agaisnt?? of course i didnt say greatness was only defined as who has been around the longest. of course i didnt say that because one album is older its better. so why make it up?? its like u wanna sensationalize what im sayin to make your viewpoint seem more legit

Arya Stark · 08-13-2013, 09:17 AM

Can we try to refrain from personal attacks so that you don't get my thread closed? Thanks.

~~butthead aka 216~~ · 08-13-2013, 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arya Stark

Can we try to refrain from personal attacks so that you don't get my thread closed? Thanks.

ummm sure lol i dont think there really were any but ok

Arya Stark · 08-13-2013, 09:25 AM

I'm making sure things don't escalate from here. I really want to see what people have to say about this.

14232949 · 08-13-2013, 10:27 AM

See everyone on this forum harps on and on about "classics"
What makes an album a "classic", media telling you so? Time doesn't change anything. It just gives people an abhorrent illusion of nostalgia and a longing for the past. What you're in effect saying is an album can't reach "classic" status until it has aged to a certain point. But that is the weakest criteria I've ever heard for an upgrading in ones opinion of a subjective matter.
Biggie's albums are classics and GKMC, MBTDF, etc aren't because they're newer. That's just ridiculous.
As for Biggie and Pac's beef increasing their stature in pop culture, obviously that's true but it shouldn't affect the way we view their music. Madonna is a bigger icon in pop culture than Jay Reatard doesn't make her music better than his.

Are you honestly telling me Eminem would have had the same success if he weren't a gimmick rapper? His gimmick was that he was the white underdog in the black man's yard and if that weren't enough he had to run with the whole 'Slim Shady' shtick when the novelty of his colour started wearing off. After that came the worst of all Eminem stages in the self righteous 'my daughter this, my daughter that' stage. I just find Eminem repulsive and it insults me that people think he's one of the best.

~~butthead aka 216~~ · 08-13-2013, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mankycaaant

See everyone on this forum harps on and on about "classics"
What makes an album a "classic", media telling you so? Time doesn't change anything. It just gives people an abhorrent illusion of nostalgia and a longing for the past. What you're in effect saying is an album can't reach "classic" status until it has aged to a certain point. But that is the weakest criteria I've ever heard for an upgrading in ones opinion of a subjective matter.
Biggie's albums are classics and GKMC, MBTDF, etc aren't because they're newer. That's just ridiculous.
As for Biggie and Pac's beef increasing their stature in pop culture, obviously that's true but it shouldn't affect the way we view their music. Madonna is a bigger icon in pop culture than Jay Reatard doesn't make her music better than his.

Are you honestly telling me Eminem would have had the same success if he weren't a gimmick rapper? His gimmick was that he was the white underdog in the black man's yard and if that weren't enough he had to run with the whole 'Slim Shady' shtick when the novelty of his colour started wearing off. After that came the worst of all Eminem stages in the self righteous 'my daughter this, my daughter that' stage. I just find Eminem repulsive and it insults me that people think he's one of the best.

i do get what you are saying about the criteria for classics. and though i dont think anyone can objectively define it, a big reason to consider something a classic would be something received incredibly well in mainstream circles and music critics as well as more underground circles. BUT a big part of a classic is....does it stand the test of TIME which i am saying kendrick doesnt have, at least not YET!

and like it or not, an artists place in pop culture is a pretty big deal. why is biggie so revered and he only put out two albums? 1) very talented, original voice. 2) near the top of the pop culture pyramid. 3) died young and tragically, never got a chance to go downhill. it isnt the fact he was a huge pop culture name, its the byproduct of that which is exposure to a broader audience.

dude for you to call eminem a gimmick rapper is just crazy. im an open minded person and understand ppls difference in taste but i CAN NOT and WILL NOT EVER be able to understand how a hip hop fan can truly believe eminem is as terrible as you are saying. its one thing to say a dude has a gimmick, but calling them a 'gimmick rapper' just has a more negative vibe to it. cause mostly everyone has some kind of gimmick but youre saying that is all eminem is, even though he has made drastically different albums.

ive never understood the argument that eminem being white was a huge advantage for him. a poor white guy trying to make it in basically an all black profession... do you think he was just some random guy that some marketing team scooped up and marketed to the masses?? his TALENT got him to where he is at

FrigginParadox · 08-13-2013, 10:56 AM

First of all that Verse was crazy, more so toward the end. no doubt Kendrick is talented, but these shots are sketchy. if he somehow loses his longevity this will be embarrassing in the future lol. I wanna see other rappers response to this.

And for the two argueing, i agree with the both of you in certain aspects. I do specially agree with the fact that Biggie never had the chance to see if he would fall offf and the media teaches us that he is one of the greatest if not the greatest. But other than that imma stay out of the arguement. my name is jess and im not in this mess lol

Arya Stark · 08-13-2013, 11:00 AM

They're putting a lot of emphasis on this verse. Like Rosenberg was talking about how people should be offended if they weren't called out on the verse and everything. That was crazy. Does this mean everyone should feel honored to be called out by Kendrick Lamar?

I loved the verse, though.

I loved how he called out even his friends and basically said this is competition, and I'm going to beat all of you. It shows who he respects, but it also shows that he wants to be higher than the top rappers in the game right now. It also shows who he doesn't think is competition.

FrigginParadox · 08-13-2013, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arya Stark

They're putting a lot of emphasis on this verse. Like Rosenberg was talking about how people should be offended if they weren't called out on the verse and everything. That was crazy. Does this mean everyone should feel honored to be called out by Kendrick Lamar?

I loved the verse, though.

I loved how he called out even his friends and basically said this is competition, and I'm going to beat all of you. It shows who he respects, but it also shows that he wants to be higher than the top rappers in the game right now. It also shows who he doesn't think is competition.

It seems stupid but being called out by one of the best out right now, out of the blue is almost an honor because like you said he respects them as his competition. those are the people he feels who could threaten him. If you put it in a sports like context, when the players are off the court or field they all can be buddy buddy but when it comes to the game, they are enemies, and friendship is tossed aside. for Kendrick this is the game ya know?

Arya Stark · 08-13-2013, 11:10 AM

I agree. I also think it was super weird that he did it on someone else's song lmao.

Did he even mention Big Sean in the lyrics? I have to check. But he just went odee. Maybe it's just me.

08-13-2013, 10:56 AM	#17 (permalink)
FrigginParadox Music Addict Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: NY/LA Posts: 293	First of all that Verse was crazy, more so toward the end. no doubt Kendrick is talented, but these shots are sketchy. if he somehow loses his longevity this will be embarrassing in the future lol. I wanna see other rappers response to this. And for the two argueing, i agree with the both of you in certain aspects. I do specially agree with the fact that Biggie never had the chance to see if he would fall offf and the media teaches us that he is one of the greatest if not the greatest. But other than that imma stay out of the arguement. my name is jess and im not in this mess lol __________________ Sound Cloud The Nostalgic Music Timeline of Paradox Last.FM Twitter

08-13-2013, 10:27 AM	#15 (permalink)
14232949 The Big Dog Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Scotland Posts: 1,989	See everyone on this forum harps on and on about "classics" What makes an album a "classic", media telling you so? Time doesn't change anything. It just gives people an abhorrent illusion of nostalgia and a longing for the past. What you're in effect saying is an album can't reach "classic" status until it has aged to a certain point. But that is the weakest criteria I've ever heard for an upgrading in ones opinion of a subjective matter. Biggie's albums are classics and GKMC, MBTDF, etc aren't because they're newer. That's just ridiculous. As for Biggie and Pac's beef increasing their stature in pop culture, obviously that's true but it shouldn't affect the way we view their music. Madonna is a bigger icon in pop culture than Jay Reatard doesn't make her music better than his. Are you honestly telling me Eminem would have had the same success if he weren't a gimmick rapper? His gimmick was that he was the white underdog in the black man's yard and if that weren't enough he had to run with the whole 'Slim Shady' shtick when the novelty of his colour started wearing off. After that came the worst of all Eminem stages in the self righteous 'my daughter this, my daughter that' stage. I just find Eminem repulsive and it insults me that people think he's one of the best.