They will praise Eminem before they praise someone like Ice Cube or KRS- One...sad.

I don't have a problem with that. Eminem will sit among those two one day.

If it was someone like Kendrick, Lil Wayne, 2 Chains, etc I think it would be a lot more sad.

I agree....but Eminem is overrated as well.

I like his early work but he is overrated.

It is kinda absurd how he is always cited on these great MC's list but Eric& Rakim or Krs One is no where to be found.

Why do you care so much about these lists? They don't necessarily reflect the hip-hop audience on the whole.

Wow. While I have no opinion on most of the great MC's you talk about on here as I have never listened to them, I certainly don't think Eminem is overrated.

I assume when you say "I like his early work but he is overrated" that you preferred his early work but not so much his new work. I agree with you there, and it doesn't quite have the same zing as his early work but one can't deny that he still possess the intense lyrical precision and hilarious puns (some extremely cheesy).

The praise he gets isn't in any way overrated. If you listened to his new album you can't deny he is still crafting lyrical masterpieces.

May I ask why you think he is overrated?

I think you only feel that way because when he first got big everyone was shocked by him. Now we have adopted his style and the shock value is gone. His flow, wordplay(lyrics), and verse structure has only gotten better over the years.

How couldn't it? It's different but he hasn't lost talent.

They don't which is why I bring them up because I think they are comical.

Ahhh ofc, how can we forget "Are we there yet? 1 & 2"?

I don't really understand how Ice cube went from being a crazy motha****a from compton to being the next Tyler perry.

you could argue he's gotten older and has different priorities now but i don't see Dr Dre putting out family films.

Well, Eric B. isn't an MC so it would make sense that he doesn't appear on any "best MCs" lists.

I recognize Eminem's talent and like I said I am a fan of his earlier albums ( I really like his first 3 albums but he peaked artistically after his second one) which is fine every artist has their peaks of creativity/skill.

However,


He is overrated because he does not deserve to be called one of the greatest.

He has to much filler and there were better MC's that did what he did but even better, i.e. 2pac and Nas. He was not a innovative force in Hip Hop and while talented, I don't think was anything exceptionally special about it. I often wonder if he was African American would he get the same attention. There are a ton of rappers who are just as good of songwriters and a lot that are way better than him. Once again, I am not trying to take away from his talent but just saying.

You should be comparing him to rappers of his time not past greats. He is definitely one of the greatest of his time in the mainstream as far as I'm concerned, and I don't even like him all that much.

I am not making an comparison, just an observation. The media and critics are calling him the greatest so I am not making the comparison.

How is he uniquely different from other rappers?
What has Eminem innovated?

There are other rappers from his era that are more talented like Mos Def or Lupe. He has the commercial success but that does not necessarily make the most talented.

While I agree with the questions you posed I don't see anything that Mos Def and Lupe have done that would make them any better if you replaced Eminem for them in either question.

The difference is Eminem touched a wider fan base and popularity is really what defines the greatness of a musician by the standards currently in place. If that wasn't the case then underground artists like Aesop, Doom (who I hate btw), Last Emperor, and Immortal Technique would be way more deserving of the title than any modern mainstream artist.

I never said that Mos Def or Lupe were the best of their generation. I said that there were more talented rappers than Eminem and I listed them as being more talented but that does not mean they are the best.

I insisted that maybe a more accurate title would be "most commercially successful" since he does have a wide fan base and has accomplished a lot commercially but like I said before that does not mean he is the most talented or most creative because there are a ton of MC's that are better than him.

Yes I understand I just don't see how either of those artists are more talented, and I like them both better than Em. Hence my first sentence.

Honestly, I think Em is more talented than both when considering what constitutes skill in an MC (flow, wordplay, rhyme scheme, intelligence, proper use of english, diverse vocab) I just don't like the overall production of the music he puts out.

Of course this is all subjective I'm sure you have a different definition of talent. I just wanted you to see things from my POV.

I would recommend you listen to more of their music because they are more talented lyrically, flow, rhyme scheme, and I find them to be more intellectual and political.

They are more talented than Eminem. If Eminem was black he would not be as popular. He only has three really good albums of course that is my opinion.

I have. I even said I liked their music better than Em, but I still think Em is a more talented MC.

I agree with you on the Em being black part, but popularity has nothing to do with this.

Okay that is your opinion. I don't think he is more talented than them.

Popularity has everything to do with that because if he was black he would not be as popular.

There are a ton of black rappers that are way better than him.

Is this thread about Eminem or Ice Cube? Cube gets lionized as a Rap Pioneer but he gets far too little credit for just being a great rapper. Listen to his contributions to NWA and Amerikka's Most Wanted and on and on and on. He really has one of the great flows in all of rap and he can come off as furiously angry and hilariously funny at the same time, which is no mean trick. Cube also deserves credit for at least trying to advance the cause of rap even today - listen to 'I am the West', a very funky and legitimate attempt to bring gangsta rap into the 21st century, even as the rapper acknowledges that he is getting a little old for this sheet. Stuff like this is getting buried under an avalanche of pop hop crapola and its a shame.

Ice Cube is definitely in my top five. I won't compare him to Eminem because I don't really like Eminem. Nothing personal. I'd just rather listen to Cube.

Personally I don't think Ice Cube was as good as Dre or Eazy E.

Eazy Duz It, and The Chronic easily topped Death Certificate in my opinion.

Dr. Dre is a great producer but lets be real...he was never much of a rapper although The Chronic is a classic

I love his rapping.

dre has always been upfront about the fact that he's primarily a producer. i like his raps as well but most of the good ones were written by his more talented friends tbh. same goes for eazy e... his voice and persona brought life to the lyrics he spit, but he wasn't really a writer at the end of the day.

Oh I don't know I think Dre could hold his own, you don't become the first billionaire rapper on the planet without some skill in that department, that being said, your right in that I would never argue that Dre could beat Ice Cube in a freestyle.

For me however, rap is about the overall package and Dre & Eazy were masters at sampling a funky beat and building on it, so while Ice Cube may be a great rapper, when I listen to say Death Certificate, I'm not hearing the quality grooves that I get from the latter two artists

That's why you should listen to The Predator, it's a far better album.

Predator is good, its production quality is better than Death Certificate, and Wicked is one of my favourite Ice Cube songs, but overall I'm still not feeling it compared to The Chronic, or Eazy's general catalogue, I still think they got the better grooves going.

Yeah, "Wicked" is fantastic. It's actually a pretty good summation of everything I love about that album. Basically the whole thing sounds like society on the verge of collapse. The music is muscular, layered and sounds like a world of dying factories and barbed wire. Ice Cube's rapping is more solid and in your face than on any of his other albums. The whole thing is just amazing and amazingly bleak. "When Will They Shoot?" and "Now I Gotta Wet 'Cha" are highlights too.

Wicked is the first song I ever heard that had a siren (air raid horn) sampled in a beat, I remember being blown away when I first heard that, thinking wow what the F is that!

Yes, When will they shoot is pretty good to, it feels like Muhammad Ali is takin shots to my pretty white head, lol. Admitably I'm not much of a rap fan these days, but right now I'm digging Joey Bada$$. this is a wicked tune!

Ice Cube is hands down one the the top 10 greatest rappers ever...period!!

Listening to The Predator on the recommendation of Jans. It's better than his earlier stuff. Can't get into it apart from one or two tracks.

A shame he didn't make an album with Dre ala Doggystyle in the early 90's.

New album is out.