I realize that. I was applying the same principle to illustrate that the acts that don't make several randoms' lists of favorite artists doesn't make them underrated, or not a household name. I'm pretty sure that most people who listen to said music casually would know of The Beatles, Led Zeppelin, and Ice Cube.

What would you say constitutes being a "household name"? I think if the average hip-hop/rock fan knows who you are, then there's a pretty strong argument that you're a "household name".

The poster said that the average hip hop fan would know who Ice Cube is. Hip Hop is a genre that specifically targets children and especially in that age range so we can not forget about the youth. I didn't say it was impossible but it is very unlikely a 13 year old would know the impact of artists that were before their time.


I am not going to expect a 10 year old to know about Slick Rick, Krs One, Wu Tang, NWA, etc these are rappers way before their time (10-20 year gaps) Unless you had parents that were bumping this type of music in your childhood

Very good

People my age are not going to know about Ice Cube and I would be surprised if they even knew he rapped and was in one of the most influential hip hop groups of all time

lol you keep going younger to prove your side of the argument.

First it was 13-25 which is already a huge age gap in thinking, then you started to just stick with the low end. 13 and now it's down to 10.

Based off of your first age range, teens normally tend to rebel from the mainstream stuff they are hearing and dig deeper. So I'm more willing to bet that teenagers know who listen to rap casually AND the ones that are hardcore fans know Slick Rick and Ice Cube.

When I was 13 I knew about those artists as well but that was because of my father. He exposed me to the oldies at an early age but most children are not afforded the same opportunity. Unless children have parents or some type of caregiver figure that exposes them to music before their time they are not going to be knowledgeable. I never said that it was impossible but it is unlikely they would be exposed to music before their time.

Typically children are just aware of artists from their generation, current pop trends and easy accessible music.

My parents don't know the first thing about hip-hop. My dad likes Afroman for the album that has "Because I Got High" on it.... They both can identify Ice Cube by his face, voice and that he's a rapper.

Like I said, I don't think I actually know someone who hasn't at least heard of Ice Cube. I haven't asked all of them, but the point is that I know a lot of people who do know who he is, many of them aren't even fans, some of them haven't even heard his music. He is very influential, and a lot of people know who he is. I think that's a much better argument for him being rated properly than "Google search has millions of hits on 'ice cube is underrated'" is for him being underrated. That's just me, though.

It's a bit subjective I guess, I mean:

Depends which demographic you asked. I would say a household name would be known amongst all age groups and people who have an interest in that person's field or not, which wouldn't be the case for Ice Cube imo. If I asked my parents if they had heard of him I know for a fact they'd say no. But Di Caprio/Will Smith/Angelina Jolie in movies they definitely would. They would know who Jay-Z is too, maybe not Kanye West.

Age does matter because age reflects music taste and interests although of course their are exceptions if you had parents/caregivers that exposed you to different music when you were a kid

The average 13 year old does not listen to 10-20 year old artists before their time unless you are cultural figures like MJ or Elvis where the music is just so easily accessible there is just no escaping it.

The only old rappers that I can think that a 13 year old might possibly be knowledgeable of is 2pac and Biggie but then again that is not a 100% guarantee. They might know who they are but not much on their music.

Well Hip Hop is a youth oriented genre so I think going lower is not that far a stretch.

I do not think this has anything to do with rebelling.

I think this is a case of children's exposure and lack of exposure to certain artists that were before their time.

It is not rational to conclude that all teenagers rebel and therefore all teenagers listen to music before their time.

How do you know that?

If we would to go off of your argument... how would you be able to tell that a teen that likes Slick Rick likes him because he is rebelling against mainstream music and not because he or she parents exposed them to Slick Rick?

This is definitely true for me. When I was 13 I was a big 2Pac fan, had all his albums and the vast majority of people in my school had heard Changes and that was it. And 'Notorious' by Biggie, don't even think people had heard Juicy tbh.

I mentioned the Google results to show that this is a debate and issue that is raised and discussed... not necessarily to justify my opinion. People implied my question and perspectives on Ice Cube were taboo but the Google results show that many others raise the same question about Ice Cube.

People may know the name Ice Cube but do they know his impact on the hip hop genre? Have they listened to his songs?

Another definition is that you're simply well-known. IMO, your definition doesn't leave a whole lot of grey area. You have to meet certain, specific guidelines that are, frankly, unreasonable. Being known by all age groups regardless of their interest in music or not implies that you're known by everyone, and in the grand scheme of things, there are 7 billion people who live on this planet. Some of them have no concept of music, some of them don't have access to radio or television, and even Lady Gaga may not even be considered a "household name" by your definition.

My definition I think is very simple, but sets a standard that you're compared relative to everyone else. I think it means that anyone who's in the public eye, someone who you've heard of but don't know personally more or less, is a household name. I think that's pretty fair, and I think Ice Cube meets that standard without question. He has 5.3M likes on Facebook, which might not be a lot amongst some other major players in music, but is still a very high number.

Do they know the impact Justin Timberlake has had on the pop genre? I don't get what you're trying to sell me, are you trying to debate whether Ice Cube is considered to have been impactful on the hip-hop industry, or whether or not he's well-known?

But I'm well known on my road. Am I a household name?

lol, I know what you're saying, but I'm not arguing against him being well known in Hip-Hop, I'm saying in general, in this country. He is not at that level that Jay-Z, Beyonce, Lady Gaga are at. They are real household names.

I'm not talking about imams in caves in Afghanistan or tribes in the Amazon, they are excluded. I mean western society & in particular Britain which is where I live. Ice Cube would be well known with Hip-Hop fans & people between roughly 16-35.

People I consider to be genuine household names would be known amongst pretty much everyone, here.

I would say a Hip-Hop household name but not a general one.

Anyway I can't be bothered to discuss this any more cos it's starting to go round in circles.

Also the phrase 'household name' is repeating in my head now like a ringing sound and it's starting to irritate me.

He has not made a significant impact on the pop genre. He is just another pop star.

Unlike Justin Timberlake, Ice Cube is not just another late 80's/early 90's rapper.

He played a significant role in creating the gangsta rap sub genre and just pioneering the hip hop genre overall. I think his contributions in the hip hop world could be acknowledged by the industry more because of the significant role he played.

The same way that you aren't able to prove that the only way a teen will know about artists before their time comes strictly from their parents. Both situations are hypothetical. You don't know that it only comes from their parents. I feel like you are basing this analysis only from your own personal experiences.

I don't completely disagree with this but my disagreement comes from the other end of the spectrum because you mentioned 13-25.

Teens and Young Adults know Ice Cube.

I didn't say that was the ONLY way. I just suggested the most likely to occur circumstance.

Is it possible that a 13 year old can take it upon themselves to research about Ice Cube on their own?

Yes

Because that is what I did after getting a good foundation.

However,

The influence of parents and caregivers have a more stronger overall impact on children. We mimic what our parents do and like because they are the first models we see and are constantly around. They are the reason why we are the way we are and have a influence on our interests especially as children.




I do not think they are aware of the tremendous impact he has made though and they might know of him but that does not mean they know he is a hip hop pioneer.

This line of reasoning is also the reason why teens shy away from certain artists that their parents listen to because they want to distance themselves from those interests and that influence.

That is also very true.


but regardless whether it influences children negatively or positively. What their parents choose to expose them to does affect their interests and their choices which was my overall point.

In the context of the world, no, you definitely aren't. Your point isn't even applicable here. :laughing:

So you're pretty in touch with the pulse of the country, I take it? Maybe it is significantly different from America, but I'd say someone who has 5.3M likes on FB is pretty popular in general.

And how to you suppose you could come up with this figure? Sounds like a major pain in the ass. Again, it's your definition, it's always going to leave you (and your argument) back pedaling, because you're blowing smoke up my ass that you'll never be able to prove, and I can't disprove because it's BS. Sorry to be that blunt, but it's absolutely true.

My definition essentially says to compare the person to the rest of the world. I'd say that Ice Cube is likely in the upper 5% of the world in terms of popularity, perhaps even in the upper 1%, I'm too lazy to actually do the work, but when I think of all of the celebrities in the world and compare them to the 7 billion people in the world, I'd think celebrities in general are in the upper 1% in notoriety. One could conclude that this makes them a household name, and there would be a pretty good argument for it.

What's the difference between a hip-hop household name? There's hip-hop households? That sounds like a fantastic band name, The Hip-Hop Household, quite the little alliteration.

Justin Timberlake is a late 80s/early 90s rapper?

And pretty much everyone knows that. :laughing:

FTD not typing essays as I'm on my phone but regarding the figure come on mate, his music is aimed at that group of people. How many grannies do you know who listen to hip hop?

How many grannies listen to Lady Gaga or Jay-Z? Perhaps you have figures for this that you're holding back.

hahah ok, now I know 'bout it:D


the thing with google is: you can find whatever you want!
if you search for: "Women have a smaller brain than retarted monkeys" you will find results for that!
if you search for: "women are smarter than men" you will find results!

I mean, if a billion people say something stupid, it doesn't get any less stupid just because a billion people said it.

They're in my personal records somewhere.

Regardless, Jay-Z is incomparable to Ice Cube as a celebrity/well known figure and has way more business ventures and other things than Ice Cube. Every fucker knows who he is.


Jay Z rides the subway and explains who he is to an older lady - YouTube

Imagine if that was Ice Cube, would be 'who is this cunt?' not 'Oh I know about Jay-Z'

Maybe that's true in UK, but not in the US. My mother is about the age of that woman and she's definitely more familiar with Ice Cube than Jay-Z. Back in the late 80s and early 90s he was one of the hip hop badboys—always a lightning rod for controversy in the media. Even people my parents' age who have no interest in hip hop remember that and remember who he is.

yeah mate, not arguing about how known he is in America, can imagine he would be.

I'm a bit baffed as to what I'm meant to be discussing with FTD now tbh.

FTD is Dizzee Rascal a household name? Is every single celebrity in the world a household name? Just asking.

I guess it seemed like you were arguing that since the video you posted was something that happened in New York.

I was taking the piss in fairness but fair enough.

Depends on what you consider a celebrity. Is it simply a famous person? I think it requires a little bit of conjecture to determine, to me a celebrity is someone who's consistently in the public eye, and is a household name (To answer question #2). Ice Cube is that, Dizzee Rascal is not even close to that (To answer question #1). I've literally never once seen him on TV, doing endorsements, in movies, on TMZ, nothing. He also has significantly less unique fans than Ice Cube, so I don't even know what he has to do with this argument.

Yeah but what public eye? In America? Dizzee is big here. Been on telly loads, he's had the same amount of no. 1s as Bowie, he is massive in Australia and all across Europe as well.

Basically he's just not a household name in America.

Dizzee was big in America for a little bit then disappeared off the radar. Fix up look sharp was in so many bloody commercials and movie trailers it was ridiculous.

Dizzee won a BET award in America.

I have never heard that song in a single commercial or movie trailer.

I find that hard to believe.

I am on my phone atm but here is one of the promos.

There are celebrities that are well known that are underrated.

There are celebrities that are less known that are overrated and vice versa.

Typically, celebs that are constantly in the public eye tend to be more overrated

Well, believe it because it's true. I've never seen that ad before.

Ice Cube is much, much more popular in the global, overall spectrum. It's a fact, I already dropped the numbers. Dizzee has hundreds of thousands of followers, Ice Cube has millions. You do the math, mate.

Yes, just like you can argue that Adolf Hitler was an honorable, immaculate human being. You can argue anything if you're just going based off of opinion. You can say that because Hitler wasn't a total idiot, and that he once was the most powerful man in the world, that he's a good man. Of course, logic would tell you that the only thing that means is that Hitler was reasonably intelligent, manipulative, and had a good army, armed with the best weapons. He was also responsible for the deaths millions of jews and other innocent people, which I think may trump the argument that he's honorable or immaculate. Just like I think that the fact that Ice Cube is considerably popular on a worldwide scale, was the engineer of what is widely considered to be the pinnacle of gangsta rap, and who had considerable solo success, producing one of the biggest hits of the 1990s, all to widespread critical acclaim, kind of trumps the argument that he's underrated. Then you add on top of that the fact that he's been a successful actor, and continues to sell albums, I'd say he's pretty much established his name in the public eye.

Link me to the post where I said Dizzee was known more worldwide than Ice Cube please.

You said Dizz isn't a household name, cos you ain't seen him on American telly.