Why is modern Hip-Hop music, aswell as mainstream pop so hated by people?

~~Soulflower~~ · 09-28-2014, 11:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DwnWthVwls

Blindly discredit those you don't like and everyone you do like is underrated. Every thread you post in.

I am not discrediting anybody.

I am just simply expressing my opinion and if you disagree with my opinion why not express why instead of complaining about why you don't like my opinion?

William_the_Bloody · 09-27-2014, 11:57 AM

Sigh I'm in a writing mood. Personally I just think hip hop/rap has run its course as a commercial entity much like disco in the 70's and heavy metal in the 80's. They all started off as cool authentic forms of music, and then became soulless corporate pap, though I love disco to its end.

Hip Hop/Rap

Culturally:

The argument here of course is that the genre is riddled with shallow douche bags who rap about bitches, hoes, and bling. Yes this has always been a feature of gangster rap, but at least back then it had a sense of authenticity to it, it was fresh new & seen as a danger to middle class white America, though ironically it most likely negatively affected African American communities on a whole. (AKA the Jesse Jackson/Al Sharpton argument)

The problem with a music that becomes mass produced is that it becomes marketable to the lowest common denominator. There is nothing worse than seeing a kid act like a gangster in the Ford Mustang his daddy bought him.

Musically:

I think this is the primary reason why rap/hip hop is dying myself, and wonder if it will be able to survive as a cultural entity in the neighborhoods it originated in.

The death blow of course is the skyrocketing costs of sampling.

Rap music as an art form was always based around sampling a cool beat and looping it, but as young and upcoming rap artists can no longer afford to do this, more and more rappers are forced to create digitized techno beats, and because most do not know how to play the synth, it sounds horrible!!!

In short sampling a beat on average now goes for $10 grand, and if you don't pay up you'll most likely get sued if your a commercial success. That's just one sample. Think about how many samples are on a classic hip hop album like Dr. Dre's The Chronic, no young rapper can afford to do this!

Is Sampling Dying? | SPIN | Music News

Well that's rap now pop.

Mainstream Pop

Culturally:

Although the face of pop music has defiantly changed for the better over the years, in terms of R & B its suffering from the same shallow douche bagginess that has been plaguing commercial hip hop. Know one wants to see a spoiled rich white kid like Miley Cyrus or Justin Beiber swearing on tv and acting like ****ing idiots.

Years ago people accepted the behavior of the likes 2 pac or Axl Rose because they had impoverished upbringings. They were outsiders coming into the mainstream. Now the pop world is filled with well established people acting like douches. If your in an underground music band, its actually cool to be well behaved because its not the mainstream. It was cool when Joe Strummer smashed his guitar, lame when Garth Brooks did it.

Musically:

The biggest issue with pop music today is sampling. Unlike upcoming rappers who can no longer afford to sample, non talent hacks with corporate backing can... and its killing music!

Sampling is a limited art form, because you are relying on the creativity of someone else to give you a pop hit instead of your own talent. The reason why Lady Gaga is so popular, (yes she uses samples to) is because she can actually write and play her own music.

Funny I use to thing sampling was awesome back in the days of Dr Dre & Massive Attack, but now its gotta die!

DwnWthVwls · 09-28-2014, 11:49 PM

Sorry I didn't include the part of the quote where you said "Lil Wayne and Drake". I hate their music too but they are still rap artists. Thread after thread you discredit artists' creativity because you disagree with how they choose to make music and what the subject matter consists of.

Just about every song ever made has some level of artistry and creativity rather you appreciate it or not. I don't really see how your opinion matters. It's not an opinion argument. You seem to have this idea where if you say it's your opinion then it makes anything you say valid but sometimes discussions are actually based on facts.

A valid opinion of yours is that so-so didn't get the credit they deserve. - That's fine if you hold them in high regard and feel they deserve more recognition than they have received.

An invalid opinion is that certain artists are being creative and others are not - Music is art. Making music takes some level of creativity, regardless of what the quality of the end result is there is still thought put into. There is always some creative process behind it.

It's aggravating to constantly have this discussion with you because we generally agree on what constitutes quality music.

~~Soulflower~~ · 09-29-2014, 07:11 PM

^ I am not sure why you feel this way when every time I express my opinion I always say "In my opinion"

You are right. Discussions can be based on facts which I do express as well but what does that have to do with this thread? lol

All of what you said above is based on your subjective opinions, not facts.

TheGoldenHorde · 10-09-2014, 08:49 PM

Mainly because of the purely superficial content of the lyrics. Modern day mainstream rap/hip hop has become very materialistic and braggadocious :\

grindy · 10-11-2014, 03:06 AM

I always wonder, why people say that music as a whole or some specific genre is dying.
Sure, there might be some decay of quality, when you pay attention to the charts, but why should you do this? The majority of people want some simple music to enjoy and party and that's fine with me. It doesn't necessarily make them stupid or superficial, they might just have other priorities.
But if one thinks, that because of this the genre is dying, then they don't put enough effort into research, which is actually made quite easy by the internet.
There is a quote by a german rapper, something along the lines of "Hip-Hop lives in the underground and dies in the charts."

BreJupiterStudios · 10-24-2014, 04:13 PM

This happens in any genre of music it seems. Especially since hip-hop is relatively new compared to rock, country, etc. Some people just don't "get it." Which is fine. I have a different appreciation for hip-hop since I work at a studio where 90% of our clients are hip-hop artists. I see the work that goes into it. Many hip-hop artists are very professional and serious about their music. Sure, I wish everyone could see that, but some people are stubborn and like to hate on things that are different from what they like. Haters are lame, but who cares. They like what they like, and I like what I like. That's all there is to it. I will keep supporting hip-hop and the hip-hop/rap community regardless of what people say, because I believe in it and I believe in self-expression. Criticism is one thing, but I only take criticism from working professionals or people with experience in what they are criticizing. Unfortunately, some people just like to be haters, even if they don't quite understand what they are hating on. Everyone does it in some way or another.

Holerbot6000 · 10-30-2014, 06:10 AM

I think the best way to defend modern hip hop and rap to a bunch of music geeks is to give up some examples of good modern music we can check out. I listen to a lot of rap and I find I almost exclusively listen to Rap from the 80's and 90's because that was the heydey, when the good and powerful stuff was being made. Now, for me, the most interesting rap and hip-hop seems to be getting made in other countries. The only newer US artists I've been able to really get into have been Lizzo, Big Freedia and Freddy Gibbs. Drake is boring, and I don't get Kanye at all. Who, especially on the Rap side of things, is really showing the goods these days? Gimme some examples or I'm going back to my Wu-Tang records. (Currently listening to Ghostface - Iron Man. Slammin'!)

**Frownland** · 10-30-2014, 08:32 AM

Billy Woods, Run the Jewels, Dark Time Sunshine, Death Grips (love or hate band), Homeboy Sandman, and Dälek (early 2000s but modern enough) are all great in my book. Also El-P's Cancer 4 Cure is his best album, IMO.

Holerbot6000 · 11-02-2014, 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frownland

Billy Woods, Run the Jewels, Dark Time Sunshine, Death Grips (love or hate band), Homeboy Sandman, and Dälek (early 2000s but modern enough) are all great in my book. Also El-P's Cancer 4 Cure is his best album, IMO.

I sampled a lot of these and they were all pretty good. Very underground sounding, like rap is suddenly the purview of bedroom artists. The one that really stood out for me was Death Grips. I like that he put an erect penis on one of his album covers - a very transgressive act, but was the fact that it was a white penis the active transgression?

Anyway, Money Store is definitely going on my want list. Thanks so much for the recommendations...

10-30-2014, 06:10 AM	#8 (permalink)
Holerbot6000 Music Mutant Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: near a record store Posts: 327	I think the best way to defend modern hip hop and rap to a bunch of music geeks is to give up some examples of good modern music we can check out. I listen to a lot of rap and I find I almost exclusively listen to Rap from the 80's and 90's because that was the heydey, when the good and powerful stuff was being made. Now, for me, the most interesting rap and hip-hop seems to be getting made in other countries. The only newer US artists I've been able to really get into have been Lizzo, Big Freedia and Freddy Gibbs. Drake is boring, and I don't get Kanye at all. Who, especially on the Rap side of things, is really showing the goods these days? Gimme some examples or I'm going back to my Wu-Tang records. (Currently listening to Ghostface - Iron Man. Slammin'!) __________________ "I'm forever near a stereo saying, 'What the fook is this garbage?' And the answer is always the Red Hot Chili Peppers." - Nick Cave

10-30-2014, 08:32 AM	#9 (permalink)
Frownland SOPHIE FOREVER Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: East of the Southern North American West Posts: 35,541	Billy Woods, Run the Jewels, Dark Time Sunshine, Death Grips (love or hate band), Homeboy Sandman, and Dälek (early 2000s but modern enough) are all great in my book. Also El-P's Cancer 4 Cure is his best album, IMO. __________________ Studies show that when a given norm is changed in the face of the unchanging, the remaining contradictions will parallel the truth. d e a f b o x

09-27-2014, 11:57 AM	#2 (permalink)
William_the_Bloody Music Addict Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Sunnydale Cemetary Posts: 2,093	Sigh I'm in a writing mood. Personally I just think hip hop/rap has run its course as a commercial entity much like disco in the 70's and heavy metal in the 80's. They all started off as cool authentic forms of music, and then became soulless corporate pap, though I love disco to its end. Hip Hop/Rap Culturally: The argument here of course is that the genre is riddled with shallow douche bags who rap about bitches, hoes, and bling. Yes this has always been a feature of gangster rap, but at least back then it had a sense of authenticity to it, it was fresh new & seen as a danger to middle class white America, though ironically it most likely negatively affected African American communities on a whole. (AKA the Jesse Jackson/Al Sharpton argument) The problem with a music that becomes mass produced is that it becomes marketable to the lowest common denominator. There is nothing worse than seeing a kid act like a gangster in the Ford Mustang his daddy bought him. Musically: I think this is the primary reason why rap/hip hop is dying myself, and wonder if it will be able to survive as a cultural entity in the neighborhoods it originated in. The death blow of course is the skyrocketing costs of sampling. Rap music as an art form was always based around sampling a cool beat and looping it, but as young and upcoming rap artists can no longer afford to do this, more and more rappers are forced to create digitized techno beats, and because most do not know how to play the synth, it sounds horrible!!! In short sampling a beat on average now goes for $10 grand, and if you don't pay up you'll most likely get sued if your a commercial success. That's just one sample. Think about how many samples are on a classic hip hop album like Dr. Dre's The Chronic, no young rapper can afford to do this! Is Sampling Dying? \| SPIN \| Music News Well that's rap now pop. Mainstream Pop Culturally: Although the face of pop music has defiantly changed for the better over the years, in terms of R & B its suffering from the same shallow douche bagginess that has been plaguing commercial hip hop. Know one wants to see a spoiled rich white kid like Miley Cyrus or Justin Beiber swearing on tv and acting like **ing idiots. Years ago people accepted the behavior of the likes 2 pac or Axl Rose because they had impoverished upbringings. They were outsiders coming into the mainstream. Now the pop world is filled with well established people acting like douches. If your in an underground music band, its actually cool to be well behaved because its not the mainstream. It was cool when Joe Strummer smashed his guitar, lame when Garth Brooks did it. Musically:** The biggest issue with pop music today is sampling. Unlike upcoming rappers who can no longer afford to sample, non talent hacks with corporate backing can... and its killing music! Sampling is a limited art form, because you are relying on the creativity of someone else to give you a pop hit instead of your own talent. The reason why Lady Gaga is so popular, (yes she uses samples to) is because she can actually write and play her own music. Funny I use to thing sampling was awesome back in the days of Dr Dre & Massive Attack, but now its gotta die!

09-29-2014, 07:11 PM	#4 (permalink)
~~Soulflower~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 2,304	^ I am not sure why you feel this way when every time I express my opinion I always say "In my opinion" You are right. Discussions can be based on facts which I do express as well but what does that have to do with this thread? lol All of what you said above is based on your subjective opinions, not facts.

10-09-2014, 08:49 PM	#5 (permalink)
TheGoldenHorde Groupie Join Date: Oct 2014 Posts: 4	Mainly because of the purely superficial content of the lyrics. Modern day mainstream rap/hip hop has become very materialistic and braggadocious :\

10-11-2014, 03:06 AM	#6 (permalink)
grindy . Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: . Posts: 7,201	I always wonder, why people say that music as a whole or some specific genre is dying. Sure, there might be some decay of quality, when you pay attention to the charts, but why should you do this? The majority of people want some simple music to enjoy and party and that's fine with me. It doesn't necessarily make them stupid or superficial, they might just have other priorities. But if one thinks, that because of this the genre is dying, then they don't put enough effort into research, which is actually made quite easy by the internet. There is a quote by a german rapper, something along the lines of "Hip-Hop lives in the underground and dies in the charts."

10-24-2014, 04:13 PM	#7 (permalink)
BreJupiterStudios Groupie Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: St. Louis Posts: 2	This happens in any genre of music it seems. Especially since hip-hop is relatively new compared to rock, country, etc. Some people just don't "get it." Which is fine. I have a different appreciation for hip-hop since I work at a studio where 90% of our clients are hip-hop artists. I see the work that goes into it. Many hip-hop artists are very professional and serious about their music. Sure, I wish everyone could see that, but some people are stubborn and like to hate on things that are different from what they like. Haters are lame, but who cares. They like what they like, and I like what I like. That's all there is to it. I will keep supporting hip-hop and the hip-hop/rap community regardless of what people say, because I believe in it and I believe in self-expression. Criticism is one thing, but I only take criticism from working professionals or people with experience in what they are criticizing. Unfortunately, some people just like to be haters, even if they don't quite understand what they are hating on. Everyone does it in some way or another.