Is Mumble Rap Punk?
 

So I've seen discussion on the webs lately about how artists like Little Yaghty are this generations version of punk music. Not necessarily in a sonic sense or even in the anarchist sense but more so in the way that they challenge the 'rules' of hip hop as a genre the same way punk did with rock. So punk was a bunch of guys who could hardly play guitar just slamming on the strings while belligerently screaming lyrics. And that of course upset a lot of the rock and roll culture. People hated it and didn't think it was 'real' music. Until it became a revolutionary thing. Now we have these kids who could hardly rhyme intentionally putting together horrible lyrics over simple beats where you can hardly understand them. And it has pissed off the hip hop culture in the same exact way. What are your thoughts?

Now, I would like to point out that not all 'mumble rappers' are horrible rappers. Travi$ Scott definitely has bars that go unappreciated simply because of his association.

I guess I'd have to agree just in the sense that as with the equivalents of the generic groups/artists that come with the run of the mill punk groups, there are also mumble rappers who rise above the rest and make much more artsier and endearing music out of the constraints of the genre.

From what I've seen artists called "mumble rap" are what I more respectfully call Trap.

I've listened to Lil Yachty, the example you cite. Like most of those guys he relies on a hypnotic style that doesn't seem very easy to pull off to me. I don't think they're rebelling against older hip hop. I don't think they care about having anything to rebel against. So no I don't think it's like punk which was a back to basics backlash against prog basically. I also think the stereotype of popular punk musicians being incompetent instrumentalist is greatly exaggerated. They couldn't do what Yes and Pink Floyd did but the bands that caught on could construct reasonable songs.

Mumble rappers rap under the trap genre but I wouldn't just call them trap because then people would just think trap is mumble rap.

I think they are rebelling against older hip hop. Lil Yaghty said he didn't give a damn about 2Pac or Biggie, says he doesn't care about lyrics he just cares that it sounds good. He himself is essentially breaking the rules of what people say a rapper needs to do. Like I already mentioned though, it's not so much about the rebellion but the idea that they push the conventions of hip hop that is forced down upon us. The same way Death Grips pushed those conventions. Or ****, half the hipster rappers that people adore seem to push those conventions. Moore Mother. NAH. Won't include Run The Jewels or Danny Brown because even though both push the limits of what can be rapped over neither really stray from the conventional flows or rapping patterns and keep the technical ability that the hip hop community demands.

When he says he doesn't care I think it's sincere apathy. Wiki says he's 19. I don't think he's doing anything in contrast to Biggie. He's doing what he likes without considering the roots. These guys aren't held to restrictions like artists in the 70's were. He records a song and releases it on MP3 or whatever the intangible digital medium is. The only connection to punk is that it's a new genre.

You really don't know **** about hip hop then. He's gotten tons of hate and backlash for being just about everything hip hop says you shouldn't be. And like I said twice before. It's less to do with the rebellion and much more to do with trying to push the limits of the genre.

Death Grips is entirely different because they're obviously trying to break ground. In fact, their music lacks sincerity because it's overly conscientious.

Moor Mother is a well grounded talented artist on a higher level.

Run the Jewels and Danny Brown are searching for new ways to recycle. They're both better than Lil Yachty by far but neither seem like serious pioneers to me. They don't need to be but since it seems they want to be it could be considered a shortcoming.

I feel as though Danny Brown's new album was basically Esham's idea for DMT Sessions but done a bit better.

Edit: Oh, and Esham MUST be considered one of the people that pushes the genre.

Edit again: And Danny Brown's album was much more jazz influenced while Esham's was more electronic music.

Let's simplify this for you.

No.

Why not?

Also why can't you spell lil yachty?

Because he has a stupid name.

Jesus Christ. I already explained it to you.

Not coherently.

In the embracing amateurism and defying the traditional concept of "good" music sense, yes, a bit. That's a pretty punk ideal, even if it's not punk music at all. Hell, hip hop and punk share quite a few things.

It's not punk in the traditional sense though, asin "taking things back to straight to the point basics"

Punk cared. These guys don't. The only parallel being drawn is it's a new genre.

What's the ****ing deal with calling **** punk that isn't punk.

Was Robert Johnson punk? No

Was Stravinsky punk? No

Were Zeppelin or the Beatles punk? No

Was Black Flag punk? Yes.

Yeah, but if you read the post I was talking about the first part. He keeps bringing up rebellion when I clearly stated that I wasn't calling it rebellious. Even though it kind of is because despite the constant pressure from the hip hop community that completely despises these acts they refuse to change.

Read the intro post. You obviously don't get the concept of the discussion.

Is it punk in every way that punk wasn't punk except sounding different?

Yes. Punk as ****.

See, now you get it.


Edit: Actually, I think Dylstew completely got what I was saying and said it better than me.

But Punk didn't invent the idea of rebelling to a genre and strip down its sound to the basics, it did invent the idea of rebelling to Rock music of its time.
So, even assuming the mumbled rap trap thing is indeed rebellious towards the rules of Hip Hop, that doesn't make it any more Punk than Basketball is like Hockey 'cause you still shove a thing into a net.

There are definitely parallels in the DIY nature of the two genres. Even ignoring lyricism, from the standpoint of production it's pretty accessible for anyone to make beats just by downloading something like FL Studio or Ableton. A lot of it is just having a dirty 808 bassline.

Let's name names. Is this whole thread about Lil Yachty?

Well I don't think he's talking about DOOM.

Agree here.

I don't even like Lil Yachty, but I appreciate the lack of concern for traditional hip hop standards. People will insist all day long, up and down the street that music shouldn't have any creative restrictions, and yet when it comes to hip hop then "it's a lyrical genre" so of course you must have complex, multi-syllabic lyrics to make Robert Frost jealous, and the flow must be rhythmically complex as well, or else you won't sound like you're trying to be the best MC on earth.

**** that. The funny thing is that black people I've known don't seem to care all that much about that ****, whereas white people can be downright fascist. I suspect the crackers are just insecure about listening to a traditionally black genre and swallow whatever restrictive bull**** they think they need to so people won't think they're ignorant honkies.

Preference=/=creative restriction

Exactly.

That was a grade a rant.

If we see punk as a set of ideals like in this thread, than something can fall under those/some of those ideals or not. Doesn't really matter if it was the first thing ever to invent it. We could use those other things to describe it as well, but the thread is about it happening to fall in line with punk.

Batlord

Have you listened to Teenage Emotions?

The album cover is so awesome. It's funny they hate this guy because he gives them nothing to hate. I think you might kind of like it. It's just pop music.

'' I bust it like Melo
Aimin' at you and your fellows
My new bitch yellow
She blow that dick like a cello''

He wanted to say flute, like ''that instrument squidward plays''..We all know which instrument squidward does play.

My god, this guy is a ****ing genius.

Flute doesn't rhyme

Case by case. Some rappers think tricky clever rhymes are a paramount. Mostly they think whatever sells is paramount. Name a specific rapper.

I think he's asking if there's any kind of musical philosophy central to hip hop/rap similar to punk.

Your response sort of shows that there isn't.

There definitely is NOT.

Go check out Totally In It For the Music, Promise! Records.

You have to understand that the current state of fragmentation allows for the fringes of the genre to flourish without impediment from corporate interests. It's not like the days where you couldn't do both. Also, the instantaneous flooding of the markets makes following the leader less likely to be at all fruitful. The influence that Detroit house or jungle may have had on the London rave scene, for example, if it took two years for the ideas to circulate back then it takes two weeks now. Lack of a need or desire for innovation isn't a problem at this point. Again it comes down to the same thing but they don't have the same power structures to rebel against today. I keep hearing that's not the point. But in reference to punk it has to be.

He thought the flute is called a cello. :')

Just checked it out and it's kinda sorta great maybe. I went back and listened to the Lil Boat the Mixtape to see if I my opinion had changed, and I guess I like Lil Yachty now.

Honestly, this thread is the first time I've heard of this kind of music. What's worth checking out?