jwb

nah... Longevity and marketing sounds like exactly the kind of compliment Jay z would pay to ICP. That's not respect in the field of hip hop. That's purely business.

Honestly man, I know you live in a state with like 3 black people in it, but if you go to any hood in america 2pac has some haters but he also gets tons of respect. He's undeniably one of the biggest and most influential rappers ever. Where as with ICP, they either don't know who that is our they are largely seen as a joke.

Lucem Ferre

This was recorded in 1995. The likely hood of ICP even knowing who 36 Mafia was is fairly low. How ever, if they were quick to find 36 Mafia that explains why they're so close.


You don't speak for black people and your inductive reasoning, well technically it's not even that it's inductive guessing, means nothing especially coming from somebody that lives on stereotypes. I get that you're a racist that thinks being white invalidates people's opinions on hip hop unless they know black people, and you probably ignorantly think I'm some privileged Mormon from Utah when I'm complete and utter white trash, but a 3rd of the valley area is Hispanic. Contrary to preconceived notions I've been the only white person before and I just never really got why you guys think it's some kind of validating thing.

Then you assume people don't know who ICP are because you're living in the 2000s. Unless you're talking black people because you think they are somehow completely different? Is this what it is? This is a "You come from Utah, you don't know how the blacks think, I do, I studied them, I had to live with them, there for my opinions on hip hop matter more" thing? You're goofy as hell.

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jwb

I was mostly joking about the Utah thing, but you're seriously delusional if you don't know how much more respected pac is not only in the hood but among hip hop fans in general.

But for what it's worth I never assumed you weren't white trash.

Lucem Ferre

I never said that. You're creating another strawman.

In no place ever is ICP more respected than 2Pac.

But they still are finally getting respect after all these years and they have been called hip hop legends by significant figures in the hip hop community/industry like Ebro.

Then you also have to wonder how many people 'in the hood' are casual hip hop fans. Like, most people in general credit the flow that 36 Mafia had been using 20 years ago to The Migos. To even credit 36 Mafia may even be a disservice to people like Tommy Wright III.

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jwb

well that was my point and you came back at me with you don't speak for black people

But now you're agreeing my assessment wasn't wrong?

Also they're not very respected in general. They might have had a few people speak favorably about them but you can probably say that about MC Hammer

Lucem Ferre

You said black people don't know who ICP even is. That assessment I think is wrong. And you're trying to use your assumptions of black people as a crutch to invalidate my opinions. You use Utah as a well poisoning punch line and that I disagree with.

The useless point of 2Pac being more respected, that has nothing to do with the conversation, I don't think is wrong. You're being disingenuous about your intent, you're trying to say ICP aren't hip hop legends because you don't think people in the hood even know who they are. Which is a very ****ty point.

MC Hammer is also considered a hip hop legend, absolutely. You're going to deny that now?

Fun fact: You don't have to like an artist's music to respect them as a legend.

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jwb

I said either people in the hood don't know them or they are generally seen as a joke. You could extend that to hip hop fans in general and i still stand by that assessment.

I only brought up the difference in respect they get vs pac cause you decided to bash pac in your defense of ICP and Batlord directly compared them.



he's a hip hop legend based mostly on his commercial success at a time hip hop hadn't broken through as much in that realm. But he's not revered as a major contributor to the genre in terms of art or influence. He's exceptional strictly as a commerical success.