Oi, where've you gone? I was about to hammer in the proverbial Nickelback nail in the coffin. Guess you was a nawty boi.

Did 4 people seriously vote Nickelback...?

What, are you trying to insinuate that Nickelback ought not to be taken seriously?

This thread makes me sad... :(

I like tool lol. And how in the world are they a sub-genre of mainstream commercial rock? Commercial? They don't even sell their music online. Was that the joke? Damn... too much tool hatin on MB.

Edit* I went back and reread the first post and i get it lol... :) not sad anymore. I missed the part about Nickelback pushing the envelope and watching it bend.

Commercialism and genre-wars aside, I can think of one 7:11 piece of Tool that alone outshines all 93 hours of Nickelback.

I voted Nickelback!:thumb:

It's true that Tool don't sell their music in MP3 format track by track, but they surely do fall under commercial. For one, they've always been with major labels. Even Opiate was released on BMG. Regardless of a band's own artistic integrity, if they have the marketing prowess of the major corporations behind them they surely have to be commercial in at least one sense, right? It's also expected that they have to answer at least in part to industry demands, if they have record contracts with the likes of Sony.

I intend this as a serious point. Not an insult.

I do also think that Tool and bands with similar directions clearly cater to a certain sub-part of modern society and culture that tend to identify strongly with the usual set of ideas and motifs. That's the whole reason they have a major label contract to begin with - their music, image and message is highly marketable, and in the present societal framework is always likely to receive a large audience. I've personally seen friends who were entirely straightforward folk, then suddenly for whatever reason started getting into conspiracy theories about aliens, government mind-control and whatnot. A few months later, and whaddayaknow...their new favourite band is Tool! The industry machine is really extraordinarily effective. I feel in many ways that far from being counter to the grain, Tool and so on really just fill another gap in the wall. If Capitalism cannot pervade all of society in one way, then it finds another way.

Yeh, having a fanbase is so commercial.

Yah, cos that's what I said isn't it ~~111!!!!

I didn't say having a fanbase is commercial. I pointed out that Tool (and bands with a similar message) are catering to a large sub-culture that empathize with those particular, generally hackneyed and cliched ideas. It is known to be a lucrative market by major labels, book publishers, film studios, and what have you. Not only that, but it's these corporations themselves that cultivate the whole conspiracy theory/mind-control (and similar ideas) market; it's a MAJOR money spinner! And Tool fit in quite nicely on the commercial agenda pertaining to that particular market. Contrary to what many fans would otherwise like to believe, they're about as much another brick in the wall as anything else.

Having a wide range of influences doesn't mean anything if your music is generic and your songs rip off each other (Nickelback). And I don't know how you've reduced Tool's influences to 2 bands anyway... I believe they're also influenced by Faith No More, Jane's Addiction, Black Sabbath, Meshuggah, the Melvins and Pink Floyd. And even then, bands often only list influences which apply to the majority of the band... Danny Carey himself has obviously been influenced by Indian percussion, jazz drummers etc.

Yes, King Crimson is a huge influence on them... And here's what Robert Fripp from Crimson had to say about Tool. "I happen to be a Tool fan. The members of Tool have been generous enough to suggest that Crimson has been an influence on them. Adam Jones asked me if I could detect it in their music, and I said I couldn’t. I can detect more Tool influence in King Crimson, than I can hear King Crimson in Tool." Pretty generous, coming from Fripp...


Now that we've made it past the influences part which isn't even particularly relevant, Tool is better IMO. I like the band a lot, I hate their fanbase. All their albums are good, and Lateralus is brilliant. Danny Carey is one of the greatest rock/metal drummers ever. Jones is a good guitarist and Justin Chancellor is a pretty decent bassist (even if he does use a pick... just joking :D ). Maynard is a great vocalist and frankly, his lyrics are brilliant.

I fail to see how Tool isn't timeless when they've already influenced a legion of musicians/bands, have a huge fanbase and quite simply, have a very original sound.

Don't even get me started on Nickelback...