let me clear this up by taking a short lyric from the song 'photograph' by nickelback

'Kim's the first girl I kissed
I was so nervous that I nearly missed
She's had a couple of kids since then
I haven't seen her since God knows when
Oh oh oh
Oh god I, I'

wow... deep, moving, poetic, different... just what every great mainstream band is like totally awesomez!

if you are brave enough to actually listen to him sing it... be my guest YouTube - "Photograph" by Nickelback

now that's br00tal.

Now come on. If that's not great comedy, then what is? That's the funniest sh*t I've seen in a song lyric since:

"Birthdays was tha worst days,
now we sip champagne when we thirstay"

What a lot of people don't understand is that Kroeger's genius rests largely in his comedic prowess and raw wit.

I still cant tell whether you are serious or not....

Who's the genius behind that?

The Notorious B.I.G., song: Juicy (1994).

I still stand by my assertion that we could all have it much worse than Nickleback.

A certain well-known sub-section of popular culture? What sub-section is that? Where in popular culture do you ever hear about things like Jungian psychology and transcendence? And who are you to say whether or not Tool "cater" to anyone? Perhaps I'm just misunderstanding, but you're making it sound like you actually believe that the band picked out a particular supposed "sub-section of popular culture" and did everything they possibly could as musicians to appeal to that sub-section.

Exceedingly strong and effective marketing ploys? Such as? Christ, very few people even knew what the hell the band looked like until a good decade after they formed, not to mention they only release a new LP about every four to five years. Sure, they're commercial in that they appeal to a sufficiently wide audience and sell quite a few albums, but to seemingly imply that their prime objective is mainstream success is completely imbecilic.

No, not like that. I'm not saying they picked them out. But both they AND the corporations who took them on in the first place knew that that was where their own vision would find its appeal. And I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that. Simply that it IS a market, and Tool are a commercial product who cater to it. Not that that's their aim exclusively. They are artists in their own rights, of course.

No, it's not their prime objective, course it isn't. But among their objectives is selling a large number of records to a niche audience. Undeniably so.

If you want to discuss marketing ploys, that's a whole topic in its own right. But again, I wasn't using it as a criticism. Tool have ingeniously built up a fanbase through their own devices like few other bands have.

I feel Tool's main merits exist when viewing their achievements as a commercial project. Musically and lyrically, not so much at all. It's telling enough that a lot of fans are embarrassed just to list Tool among their favourite bands.

Ah sorry then, misunderstood.

But I'm pretty sure people are only embarrassed to list Tool among their favourite bands because Tool fans are known for being a bunch of dicks, lol.