No he's a decent player. You're just sucking his **** way too hard right now. Back off dude, he is a long way from any top ten list.

wow you have the wit of a 3rd grader. gj

No I would say this for any player that is called emotionless and robotic when its the complete opposite. Playing fast doesn't mean you can't be emotional, and he is. If Bo Diddley had the guitar ability to play faster, he probibaly would have, but he didn't have the chops.

You have the opinions of a third grader. What's your point?

Whats third gradish about my opinions?

You said Jimmy Page couldn't hold a candle to Petrucci for one, get back to me when he has half the image and star power and writes 50 of the greatesst rock songs ever written. You're an idiot and a troll. Just know that every second of your life that you live thinking Johh Petrucci is the best guitarist of all time is a wasted ****ing second that you will never get back.

Even if he wasn't a product of his generation where those ideals hadn't even come into play yet musically, he probably wouldn't have in the first place because he was too much of a stylish motherfucker.

Look. Aside from the fact that your criteria for judging musicians according to technical ability is completely shallow... Petrucci isn't even near the top based on technical ability.

Bireli Lagrene is a gypsy guitarist who can play circles around Petrucci. One example of many.



Petrucci's soloing is a joke. It's almost guaranteed that if I skip to any random place in a DT song, lo and behold, Petrucci will be fretwanking right there in his formulaic 'choose a pattern, play it as fast as possible and climb up the fretboard' style.

:laughing:

Since when has blues & R&B been about speed?

To reference a pretty nice blog though, i doubt many could play this with the speed and damn right coolness that this guy could

http://www.musicbanter.com/members-j...tml#post708234

Because he doesn't look like this.

http://www.spirit-of-metal.com/membr...atio-13163.jpg

Geez Urban, don't you know anything about guitarists?

Can I say I love you for the inclusion of Billy Zoom? One of the most underrated guitarists ever right there.

Anyway, I think Petrucci's technical ability is rather overstated, playing fast and all over the place is not the only factor in technical chops, a great understanding of melodicism and the ability to apply your skills in a tasteful way is also a big part of it.

Take even less technically skilled guitarists into consideration, like Gilmour or Santana for example. To do so much with so few notes isn't as easy as people make it out to be, it takes a great understanding of melody and structure. Gilmour and Santana could do more with 4 notes than Petrucci can do with 100.

There's a lot of great technnical players out there, and a lot who also know the difference between showing off their ability in a creative and tasteful way, and just plain wanking a whole song to death.

Petrucci is not one of those players, I've never heard him do anything that he didn't run into the ground with tiresome guitar gymnastics. I'd say he's ridiculously high as it is and that mainly has to do with his influence in the shred guitar wanking community.

Compare Petrucci to most other prog guitarists. Like Robert Fripp, Steve Howe, Andy Latimer, Jan Akkerman and Steve Hackett. Sure they liked to show off and play really complex, over the top stuff. But they also knew how to craft melody and suit a song perfectly, as well as not steal all the spotlight from the other band members. They could also play catchy riffs or really simple, beautiful parts when they needed to. I have yet to hear Petrucci prove himself capable of doing such a thing.

Then again, Petrucci is far from being a progressive guitarist, I quite hate it when people refer to him as such, he's a generic metal shredder in a so called prog band, that's it. I think it's just plain idiotic when people claim he's better than Gilmour and Page. But when people try and put him on the same plain as Robert Fripp, I just find it offensive, Petrucci is an insult to everything that prog rock is supposed to be about.

That's one thing I hate about DT fans, most of them are metal fans who wouldn't know prog if it bit them in the ass. So yeah, if you only listen to DT and Symphony X, don't call yourself a prog fan, I can't stand that.

Sorry, prog elitism overload, I need to cool down.

Adam Jones needs to be higher up the list :P

Glad to see Ler Lalonde got some love.

You seem to be living in a little world where you believe no one can disagree with you. How old are you? I hope for your sake you are young enough to learn differently.

How about shutting the fuck up and simply realising that not everyone shares your opinions. Pretty simple.

your idea of prog is so skewed. you just keep proving you don't listen to DT, and are completely ignorant on what they do. They pull elements of classical, jazz, world, arabic, and every other form of music. They play atonally, they constantly switch time signatures, and do things that no other bands have done. They have produced several concept albums and continually exersize deep knowledge of music theory.

They use every mode, every scale, every piece of knowledge in their musical arsenal.

Now if you want melodic playing, that is not fast, like I mentioned, Petrucci has produced more of those solos than Hendrix. Now also, to say that you can't be fast and melodic is stupid. You can have the same melody, but simply add in extra notes.

So instead of giving lets say and A a whole beat (quarter note for this example), you could play 4 16th notes where you play the A maj arpegio and then end on an A. Melodically, this would have the same effect as just playing an A, but also add more color.

The idea that playing fast and playing melodically are mutually exclusive, is stupid.

Also if influence on other guitarists is an important factor on your list, where is Segovia, Carcassi, Sor, Tarrega, or Paco de Lucia?

No if you have an opinion that is fine. However, that opinion has to be based on logic in order to not be subject to objective critique

Oh ok so under that logic Daughtry is a better guitarist. His image is twice as big as Page's. This is the problem, you equate image to ability. Huge mistake.

Just realize that your puny brain is hindering every second of your life.

...And they still can't write a halfway decent song.

Uh oh...

How does this make them different from any other prog band?

Oh yeah, they're not actually doing anything progressive or worth listening to.

DT stick to the same tired prog metal formula over and over. They don't take risks and while they're certainly talented, they have the ability to reinvent themselves and do something fresh and interesting, they simply choose not to, which I think is even worse than not being able to do it in the first place.

They have stayed pretty much the same for over 20 years. For them not to try and free themselves of the creative shackles they have limited themselves with, it's not very faithful to what prog rock is all about.

Even the worst prog bands can do that, the important thing is how they use it.

Yes and sometimes you can do some great things with a lot of notes, but sometimes you can do a lot with very few.

I don't consider Petrucci to be a very melodic player, I'm sure he has material that is very melodic, but that just makes me think less of him, that means he chooses to do nothing but wank, rather than being incapable of doing anything else.

But either way, there's other highly technical guitarists who have a better understanding of melody than he does, Buckethead and Eric Johnson for example.

As for Hendrix, I have yet to hear Petrucci do anything on the level of melodic brilliance that Hendrix has done, especially with songs like Little Wing.

I never said they were.

If you want a fast AND melodic player. Try John Mclaughlin or Al di Meola.

None of them are rock guitartists.

Shame thats not what were getting.

To be fair his argument is steeped in logic.

It's pretty logical that a Dream Theater fanboy will totally miss the point of what good music actually is.

Im not even that much a DT fanboy, i think they are great, but I think a lot of other bands are great. But talent wise, Petrucci has to be top, and to other famous guitarists he is extremely influential. I forgot which magazine did it, but they polled tons of modern rock guitarists on the most influential guitarists. He was in the top 15 I think. Its not just Petrucci that makes this list outrageous. I am citing him because its one of the worst parts of your list.

For example to think that Stevie Ray Vaughan didnt accomplish more, was less talented, or influential than Scotty More is ridiculous.

What is your beef with 50s rock n roll?

There wouldn't be sh*t without Bo Diddley or Scotty Moore.

I`m a big DT fan that actually got into them after being a big prog rock fan for many years, so not all are just metal fans first.

Symphony X never really liked them but I do like Fate`s Warning.

who the hell has ever been influenced by Petrucci outside of the shredhead and wankery community?

If you think that guy is a technical skill nut, I should introduce you to an ol' DDD buddy of mine. Troy Ponce de Leon (actual name).

Here's a list he made.

100 Greatest Rock Music Ensembles

3. Steve Vai 2001 - Steve Vai (g), Tony MacAlpine (g,k), Virgil Donati (d), Dave Weiner (g), Billy Sheehan (b)
10. Dream Theater - John Petrucci (g), Jordan Rudess (k), John Myung (b), Mike Portnoy (d)
11. Symphony X - Michael Romeo (g), Michael Pinnella (k), Thomas Miller (b), Jason Rullo (d)

...

39. Black Sabbath - Tony Iommi (g), Geezer Butler (b), Bill Ward (d)
40. The Who - Pete Townshend (g), John Entwistle (b), Keith Moon (d)
42. Led Zeppelin - Jimmy Page (g), John Paul Jones (b), John Bonham (d)

Need I say more?

So THATS why you don't use that forum anymore... got ya.

Well me, but also a lot popular groups now. Gosh I can't even think what you guys think of some jazz guitarists if you think Petrucci is all about wankery.

How can you listen to to something like the octavarium solo (youtube it) and think it is wanking... you guys just dont know DT...

What is wrong with you? We've listened to Dream Theater. We didn't like it. Really, it's possible for people to not like something. Especially where Dream Theater's concerned.

And stop throwing around the fact that we don't know everything about them.

To know everything about a band I don't even like would be nothing short of pathetic.

hmmm......i can see what you mean that it's not just a bunch of wanking, but to be honest it's a bit stale, like it lacks kind of an identity, you know what i mean? but yeah, that's kinda why i'm not into DT, they're good technically at their respective instruments, but it's a bit souless to me, like they don't really try putting themselves into their playing and just do textbook riffs and patterns to get by.


anyway, that's my opinion. not trying to get into some crazy arguement, seeing as it's 1:30 am right now, haha

The best way to sum up my opinion of DT is this.

I admire their talent, however I don't admire how they waste it.

Do you not get it yet? The reason you are getting such opposition is not because you like Dream Theater and lots of us don't which by the way, most of us wouldn't have the slightest problem with ordinarily...it's that you persist in putting across your points of view as undisputable facts. If you don't mean to come across like that then think about the points you want to make and try and phrase your posts better. If you do mean to come across like that then people are not going to stop arguing with you.

The majority of people here DO know DT, but shock horror they simply disagree with you. You can shove it down our throats all your want.

This.

Sure they have all of the theory in the world, but music isn't about theory, scales, or modes. Music is all about your ears and your soul. Not about your brain.

dream theater is like one of those bands that plays showcases at schools for people who study how to play rock instruments as a life long discipline, only for some reason they play for the public as well.

To be fair, that is what the majority of their fanbase consists of, music students.

They're a band for musicians, rather than a band for people who just listen to music.

So they mostly appeal to the Steve Vai/Yngwie Malmsteen fanbase.

Just, please... don't confuse DT fans with prog fans. -_-

right, but so is king crimson, tortoise, and fantomas. just because it's music made for musicians doesn't mean it has to be technical overkill hehehe

Maybe. But KC know when less is more. They could write a gorgeous ballad, a straight up rocker or a simple pop song when they needed to. Fripp and the gang also know the importance of build ups and repetition, and when staying silent is appropriate.

Prog isn't just a big orgy of scales and time signatures, even though that's what Dream Theater seem to believe.