Heh, yeah, I saw them 7 years ago too. Can't remember what I paid, though. I was 15 or 16 at the time.

There actually were tickets for around $50 for my show, but they're lawns. I wanna be at the front so I dropped the cash :P

And yeah, I know, it sucks how tickets have got more expensive... I paid over $100 for the NIN/Jane's Addiction show, too. Ah well. It's a piss-off, but I'll only pay that much for my favourite bands and Tool is #1 on that list.

I didn't realize Tool had done gigs in Ontario. When was this?

Aenima and stinkfist are probably in my top 100 songs

Every Tool song is my favorite Tool song. Seriously.
The best part about loving Tool is knowing that when you seen them live, they sounded BETTER than they do on CD. I love absolutely everything about them, from their philosophies to their integration of it into their music. They have so much depth and meaning, and after over 10 years of listening to them, I still haven't even gotten to the bottom of it completely.
You just can't compare that to the expendable crap you hear every day.

Agreed VF, I didn't really appreciate Wings Pt 1/2 until I saw it live. I didn't start listening to them until about two years ago, so I wasn't around for the Lateralus tour. I'd give my left testicle to see Disposition/Reflection/Triad played live.

I love you.

Rawr :D

Right on. When you saw them back in '02, who opened? Tomahawk or Fantomas? I got to see Tomahawk.
You're probably just as old as I am. I was 15 when I caught that show.

Good call. For me, I love the fact that their albums arent just a bunch of songs, but rather a story, with meaning behind it. Especially their last album 10,000 days, unreal album, you can almost forget about yourself and things around you while listening to it. I like the fact that they actually put thought into making an album insead of banging out as many albums as quick as possible, it may take some time, but a Tool album I dont think ever dissapoints.

Boy, I've slowly grown out of Tool. They're like, smart music for dumb people. I'm not calling their fans dumb, but people take Tool too seriously sometimes.

Also, Isis and Neurosis are both >>> Tool

Smart music for dumb people? What do you mean?

I still think Tool are amazing. And how could you take them too seriously? They are a serious band who explore pretty deep shit. They are meant to provoke thought.

Tool >>>>>>>>>> Isis and Neurosis

Because people always LOVE to say something like, "YOU COULD NEVER WRITE A SONG AS DEEP AS STINKFIST!!!" Tool doesn't make very thoughtful or witty or complex metaphors like people seem to think, they're relatively simple metaphors and they really beat the **** out of dead horses. They try really, really hard to be "deep" or "different."

You know Maynard was a hilarious black comedian, right? I don't doubt that he left his comical abilities behind to become this all-serious, "deep" band leader.

Honestly, Isis and Neurosis have done more for metal than Tool will have ever done. Quite often, Tool plays a boring, up down up down three chord combinations. They're really monotonous.

Isis and Neurosis can both create dense, layered sonics that are a lot more powerful than Tool.

Firstly, people who say stuff like that are obviously dumb and unknowledgeable. I'm not one to go about saying "YOU COULD NEVER WRITE SONGS AS DEEP AS TOOL." I agree with you on that; I don't like people who talk about Tool like they are untouchable Gods or some shit.

Secondly, since when was Maynard a hilarious black comedian? I know he was close to Bill Hicks and often incorporated black comedy into many of his viewpoints on the world but he was never a comedian. He studied art and wanted a career in art before participating in Tool; as far as I know he was always interested in profound and alternative ways of looking at the world. In fact, in most interviews/ press conferences/ etc I've seen with him he has always come across as a very, very serious person.

Plus anyway, comedy and specifically black comedy isn't lighthearted at all... it is often a very serious method of critiquing the world.

Thirdly, I agree with you in a way that Tool haven't done much for 'metal' and this is because I don't really place Tool in metal bucket at all. I see them more as art rock/progressive.

Fourthly, I definitely don't believe Tool are monotonous. They are anything but. Both emotionally and technically their music is very complex and layered. Can you give me any examples of where they use boring up-down-up-down three chord riffs? Because as far as I'm aware their technicality is way more advanced than that.

Maynard started out as a comedian, but he ended up going towards music anyway. He said so in an interview.

You ignored the rest of what I said about their metaphors being uncreative or simple. They try too hard to seem intelligent.

...Comedy is lighthearted, even black comedy. The point of comedy is to make light of a situation or event, and yeah, critique can be funny.

Tool is progressive metal. I haven't heard anyone disagree on this.

Their songs are usually 6 minutes long, and it's not uncommon for them to be longer. Stinkfist is pretty much a couple chords, H does have more than a few basic chords, but then it gets ****ing plastered with them, Hooker With a Penis is monotonous (but hilarious), a lot of Aenima is like that. Lateralus is a bit better, but parts of it still suffers from up down up down monotony. 10,000 Days is so, SO ****ing boring. It's loaded with filler, and the songs that aren't meant to be filler, (mainly Wings for Marie stuff) is just really, really long with microscopic changes, which they pass off as complexity.

How many times can Maynard reference his mother in a single album?
10,000 days gave us the answer.

Boring and monotonus might be your opinion of Tool, but seeing as though their album AEnima reached double platinum status and the albums AEnima AND Lateralus both recieved grammy award for best metal performance, and both albums Lateralus and 10,000 Days debuted at #1 on the billboard charts, I hardly think thats the way it is.

Makes sense, seeing as 10,000 is a concept album about his mother who was in a coma for 10,000 days before she passed away.

That really doesn't mean jack**** considering Slipknot also won that award one year. :laughing:

And when did an album being #1 on the billboard charts have any bearing on the quality of the music itself?

Not saying the albums suck (much), but nevertheless these are poor arguements.

I have heard plenty of people disagree with Tool's status as progressive 'metal.'

I agree with you in that Stinkfist and Hooker with a Penis are both some of their most basic songs which get a bit monotonous. H is also not a favourite of mine. They are only 3 songs. Most other of my favourite songs by Tool are littered with crazy odd time signatures and complex odd-timing guitar. Many of their songs conists of guitar/bass/drum work which isn't repeated at all, in fact I love that they can have so many great riffs in songs and not not repeat them. Personally, I think Lateralus is fantastic. 10,000 days has some great songs on it like Vicarious, Jambi, The Pot, Rosetta Stoned, and Right in Two. There are a lot of boring fillers on that album but they're overweighed by some fantastic songs and concepts explored.

You say that their songs go for 6 minutes or even longer. Well... length is a huge aspect of what prog is. You'd be hard pressed to find any type of progressive band that has short songs.

Look at all the artists who have received awards for their music. I hope you find every single one of them to be amazing, since that seems to be your logic.

Fine, genre is irrelevant, anyway.

Right, I named 3 songs. I'm not going to sort through Tool's catalogue and give you every single song that's up down, up down, three chord combinations peppered with some picking that's at an odd timing. People overrate the awkward timings of Tool songs. Vicarious is just Schism backwash. The Pot feels out of place. I don't even remember Rosetta Stoned, and Right in Two has so much needless quietness that just gets passed off as pseudo-intellectual.

Yeah, six minutes of three or so chords with a little bit of awkwardly timed plucking is long and dull. It's not that I don't expect them to have long songs, but I expect them to do something with them, rather than take up space.

I dont find every artist who has recieved awards for their music amazing, and I never once said I did, so no, that isnt my logic, but if an artist receives agrammy award even once theyre obviously doing something right.

And instead of picking apart the guitar which maybe isnt the most complex at times, which by the way doesnt make a song 'bad' or 'suck', why dont you focus on the skill of their drummer Danny Carey, which is second to none. Hey to each his own, you may not like Tool, but that doesnt mean they suck. You never said directly that they suck but thats the vibe Im getting, the way they do things is a style all their own, theyre not out theyre making typical songs like a million other bands are doing that have no imagination. Tool is Tool, they've obviously done something right or they would have faded a long time ago.

Well, I guess I just disagree. I find Tool's music to be incredibly technical and incredibly layered. As a pianist/guitarist/ musician of over a decade who has attempted to play various Tool songs I've come to appreciate how musically technical they are, and how complex their musical structures are. They definitely use more than three or more chords in each song, and their timing definitely isn't awkward plucking, but incredibly tight and structured in terms of time signatures. I just don't understand how you can view Tool's songs as up-down-up-down chord plucking because I can't think of any songs that have that as a continuous structure. I guess we'll just have to disagree with each other because I just view Tool in a completely different way!

Green Day, Coldplay, Justin Timberlake, Lil Wayne, and Kanye West (for Graduation) are all exceptional, then?

Yeah yeah, Danny Carey is a good drummer. I never discredited him. I'm pointing out why I don't like Tool, why would I focus solely on a drummer who we all know is great?

I never said that complexity makes a song great. However, technicality is relative in metal, and Tool tries to accentuate on complexity, but they aren't as complex as people like to think - that's the point I'm making. Length is relative to monotony and repetition.

There was no point to even bringing up a negative vibe that you perceived, some people might take offense, or something, and it might lead to a battle of ad hominems.

Tool isn't very imaginative or cinematic or creative at all. Yeah, they make tons of revolutionary statements, like "Christianity is bad." Plus, they sound like a more commercially acceptable version of Isis, or Neurosis, you know, minus the grit and rawness and power, and plus a "deep and brooding" tone of melancholy. I'll never understand why people think, like, "monotony = deep!"

Please, don't continue to use arguments like, "they received awards!" or "they're still going strong!" to support why they're good or creative.

I just want to make it clear that I wasn't the one who made arguments based on Tool receiving awards. Arguments based on that are stupid.

I personally think Tool are incredibly cinematic and creative. Especially how they aim to combine the visual arts with their music, with their video clips made by Adam Jones and their collaboration with Alex Grey. I definitely think their music is a lot deeper than "Christianity is bad" (that made me laugh) but rather explores the concept of spirituality, existence, the collective consciousness, all that kind of stuff. I'm not saying that they're revolutionary or anything, but I do believe a lot of their songs do hold great meaning.

This is just my personal opinion, and obviously we disagree, but I think Tool are fantastic musicians who are profound, technical, clever, interesting, and creative. I enjoy the length of their songs and never get bored or think they are monotonous. Like I said up there ^^, as a musician myself I just really appreciate the technicality, difficulty, and creativity of their music.

So lyrics are taking a backseat these days? I personally find that tool's and APC's lyrics to be of quite a high caliber. And how can you say they're monotonous? Tool is quite varied as an artist and I find their variety quite refreshing, sorry if you don't feel the same way, but I guess opinions are what make the world go round

I already stated how I felt about their lyrics and why I see them as monotonous...

I don't understand how you could say you think tool lyrics aren't deep and imaginative. I listen to CTTS and I still think tool's lyrics are pretty deep and complex.

I think arguing about a band's merits is dumb. If you like it you like it, if you don't you don't. No amount of arguing is going to change someone's taste.

I enjoy listening to Tool. I couldn't give a fuck about the meaning behind their songs and how complex or simple the music is. Their album sales and position in the charts mean even less to me.

Also I should voice my opinion, as I'm sure many others have before me, that it makes little sense to have Tool and A Perfect Circle share a thread. What's next, we're gonna group Faith No More and Fantômas, Pantera and Down, Nirvana and Foo Fighters, Queen and Bad Company single threads? ;)

I appreciate the complexity / technical prowess of their music, but that would be all rather pointless if it didn't MOVE me... and ****, you gotta take your hat ofrf to a band that can play all that complicated music and still have you feeling such a strong emotional response... whether its the philosophy of Lateralus or 10000 Days or the armageddon storytelling of Aenema... the band illicits such a strong and evocative response, you can't help but be amazed. I love'em...

I've always thought this and it has annoyed me how Tool/APC share the same thread. Boo. They are completely different musical entities; they only share one similar member so it's assumed they are the same thing. No.

Right, I've been talking about sounds, and WHY I see their sound as monotonous.

Talk about poor trolling.

I agree that Tool and APC should be separated into their own boards / threads... they are nothing alike, in fact the only common factor in each band is the vocalist... it would be like merging the Nirvana and Foo Fighters thread because of one common band member... not logical captain...

One thing I know well is Tool.

What I think is rediculous is how people say MJK is a 'god', when the main message of Tool is so against that. Religion is the opiate of the masses, people.
I arrogantly used to worship Tool and fixate myself on them, but the more I looked into them, the more I realize the message being sent was to think for yourself. Funny, they must laugh in the face of so many of their fans.
So I put them down, and now appreciate them as an amazing band, but not a whole lot more.

As for comparing Tool and APC, I don't think you should. Would you compare Tool with Puscifer? It's not different, I think KJM was with APC just to do something different just as he is experimenting with Puscifer now.

Favorite APC songs:

Noose
Orestes
Brena
Gimme gimme gimme
Passive
Blue
Nurse
Pet
Counting bodies like sheep to the rhythm of the war drums
Lullaby

Favorite Tool songs:

Aenima
H.
Forty-six and two
Third Eye
Disposition
Sober
Eulogy
Lateralus
Rosetta Stoned
Schism

Yeah, it seems as though these two topics are quite popular in this thread. I'm pretty annoyed with the character that is Maynard. Very, very overrated. His side projects are not something I'm impressed by, either. Also, I used to be that fan that worshiped them and until recently. I've received the message, I feel, of how liberating it feels to think on your own, to be proven wrong, yet still be in sync with those around you. It's undeniable that Tool has been a helping hand in this realization. As overrated as they may be, most of the time, they aren't recognized for the raw brilliance they've shed into the world - socially and musically.

Now that we have had two albums or so of the whole personal awakening theme in Tool's music, what other themes do people think they might cover? I mean they`ve tackled some pretty lofty themes and concepts lyrically... I'd like to see this dcontinue as well as maybe hitting on some new themes... I like a good lyrical challenge...

Or maybe people are just happy with their present lyrical themes... feel free to respond!

But if they aren't recognised for the 'raw brilliance' they've shed into the world, then this if anything means they're underrated, doesn't it? :confused:

Either way, I'm also annoyed by people who worship Maynard like some kind of a god or something. He is an inspiring individual and musician who has great influence but he isn't the ONLY member of Tool and I think most people forget this. Adam, Justin, and Danny are just as important figures in the band. And the kind-of worshipping that Maynard receives from many crazed fans is exactly the kind of thing that he openly hates about the music scene.

Most the time (especially where I live) ,when I see/hear Tool being recognized, it is because of how "****ing metal" they are when in all actuality, they are not that metal. Not only that, but those of us who rant on and on about the themed personal experiences Tool has incorporated into their music seem to forget where this band started out, how much they've progressed. Perhaps I didn't make it clear enough in my previous post, but I believe they are both overrated and underrated in different aspects, of course.

However, it is pushing 4:30 am over here, and if I stay up past 5am, I'm obliged to see the sun rise, so until my brain is recharged, Kate, I'm sure you'll find something to respond to in my post.

Ugh I know what you mean completely. I'm thankful that I've found someone else who is sick of Tool purely being recognised as a 'metal' assemblage. This attitude often means that the whole point of Tool as a band and as a communication 'tool' is completely missed.

Yeah, I'd have to agree that they are both overrated and underrated in many different ways.

That's an understatement.
But I don't see the reason to compare ISIS and Neurosis to Tool. Of course, I really have never cared for Tool so I've got no business posting in this thread.