Why such controversy on Nu Metal?
 

I see that alot of people here despise certain genres of metal particuarly nu metal, rap metal, occasionally black metal, etc.

Is there any particular reason for this? I don't really see what is so bad about bands such as Korn or Slipknot, or the like. In fact, they're some of my favorite bands.

It may not be traditional metal, but is there any particular reason people look down on it so much?

I see nothing wrong with Nu metal except that most Nu metal artists are pretty bad in my opinion. The only ones I like are exactly the ones you mentioned. Korn and Slipknot. And perhaps Limp Bizkit too. All others are just pathetic in my opinion. They dont play music well, and their songs often have weird and stupid subjects. I guess thats the case with korn and slipknot as well, but at least they have some good albums.

I think it's weird to throw black metal in with those, but to answer your question, nu-metal is a synthesis that seems driven largely by adolescent and adolescent-acting bands, combining two genres of music that are 1. angsty and 2. easily commercial. The resulting music is usually a lot more proud of itself than it really deserves to be (lower technical skill than a lot of other metal genres, less lyrical depth and compositional profundity, etc. etc.) and unfortunately, due perhaps to the strong backlash against its founders, or perhaps to the transience of its demographic target, there's been very little exploration of it in the underground by more talented rappers and metal musicians.

It's only because we normally get somebody on here that goes on about how brilliant Nu-metal is and how much better it is than other metal genres. Most people on here know their metal sub-genres really well and recognize Nu-metal as a limited sub-genre with a whole load of mediocre and poor bands, that's not to say that they're aren't some good Nu-metal albums though.

With a bit of ignorance and generalization, it's easy to take your dislike and put it out as hate. I don't think it's all bad, definitly commercialized for easy listening, but with any genre you have those who love it, those who hate it, and those who don't give a fuck. I will defend my love for bands like Disturbed, SOAD, and Rage Against the Machine, hell, even some Linkin Park.
It's just the negative outweighs the positive, and the name is stupid, why Nu? Is new really too long?

I can think of a few albums sometimes considered nu metal that I enjoy.

System Of A Down's S/T, even though it really doesn't sound very nu metal at all. More like just some hardcore influenced alternative metal.

Fear Factory's Soul Of A New Machine and Demanufacture are both excellent, but they're closer to death metal with industrial elements.

Sepultura's Roots has all the elements of nu metal, and it's a classic. However, it has a lot more depth than the average nu metal album, the world music influences and emphasis on the instrumental aspect is very refreshing for the genre.

Well yet again we have a Nu Metal themed thread so here is my two penneth worth.

Although there are many, many sub genres of Metal, the most recent sub genre that has gained commercial appeal is Nu Metal which is fine in that heavier forms of music have become more acceptable but the problem is that a large percentage of people who listen to Nu Metal ONLY listen to that genre and therefore are convinced that this is how all Metal should sound and become over protective of the genre.

This is of course true with most fans who only listen to one particular genre of Metal and it is this narrow minded attitude that irks Metal fans who listen to lots of different Metal and know what they are talking about and can find fault with not just Nu Metal but all genres of Metal but because the demograph of Nu Metal is primarily the under 21's they get bitchy when you criticise it because that's all they listen to.

I personally find any music fan who listens to Metal and Metal only a complete twat on the whole, narrow minded and lacking a fundamental understanding of music on the whole. I am embarrassed to be a Metal fan sometimes due to the narrow minded attitude of the listeners but wearing band T shirts and having a leather jacket is the dress I wear but it certainly doesn't paint the whole picture of me.

Going back to Nu Metal, the genre (like every sub genre in Metal before and since) got so oversaturated with copycat bands that enjoyed commercial success, it is much easier to pick the bones out of the genre because even if we don't like the genre, you couldn't help be exposed to more bands through the media and realise that the genre ended up being Pop music with guitars. 3 min songs with traditional song structures and that is not how I like my Metal.

Some Nu Metal was really good or interesting enough for me to appreciate it. (If you forgive the generalisation and are they Nu Metal or not crap) System Of A Down don't sound like any other band out there, Korn (who I hate with a vengeance) at least created a different sound especially in the rhythm section and vocal delivery, Rage Against The Machine utilised the guitar as a dual instrument to provide riffs and soundscapes not heard before and bands like Mordred and Senser used turntables in their music as homage and respect to Hip Hop and not a mere gimmick.

There is a lot of crap in every single of genre of metal and for me there is more bad than good unfortunately but due to success of Nu Metal it is one of the genres that will be talked about more.

Controversy might be the wrong word.

Nu Metal to me uses way to much of the "brain, pain, insane" theme. Simple rhymes, woe-is-me lyrics, pretty straight forward music. Its a genre that seems to lack a lot of song-writing skills, and to improve your ability to play an instrument, or song writing has the whiff of "selling out."

Its a genre that doesn't seem to want to improve, and in some ways it unintentionally minimalist by way of ignorance. The one exception had been System of a Down, but then they let their meathead guitarist write songs and he was more of the numetal same.

I don't think that there is much controversy surrounding the genre. It's more of an ambitiousness that I see. Korn, I don't see any metal in that band at all. Though I do admit that I haven't heard all of their songs. Slipknot seem rather straight forward in their metal from the two albums I listened to. But I suppose that if having some rap in the end product makes it Nu-Metal, than I suppose.

And like others, I don't like the "Nu" word. It's just trying too hard to be neat/cool/hip. Maybe it should be called Neo-Metal...? I can hear the Matrix hate coming.

I enjoyed some Korn, like Freak on a Leash. But as I was looking through the metal section at a store when I hit Korn I was shaking my head...

I guess I'm just not all that familiar with the sounds that it's kind of over my head.

Nu Metal is marketable metal. It's hard enough to capture the angst of a teen demographic and catchy enough to sell records. Really what is the one common denominator of all the bands that fall under the Nu Metal headline? Marketability. Take that and combine it with the fact that, as a generalization, most people who espouse Nu Metal as a sub-genre don't go much deeper into the greater genre of metal, and it becomes an annoying once-upon-a-flavor-of-the-month genre. I don't think there's too much wrong with most of the music itself. There's definitely a lot of garbage, but I don't think that can be put on the style itself, rather, as Big3 got at, it's pretty much what amounts to be a lack of effort and depth in songwriting.

It took Henry Rollins about 30 seconds to deconstruct and explain the whole thing.

I think to some people nu metal really doesnt sound like metal at all to them, so this might be part of the reason why they despise it, because of the lyrics and the unpredictable sound of the genre.

I don't like to say anything bad about particular genres, as each has their pros and cons. That being said, I'm a fan of Nu-Metal. I have a ton of Nu-Metal albums, ranging from the popular (Korn, Slipknot, Linkin Park, Disturbed, Limp Bizkit) to the not-so-popular (No One, Spike 1000, Shuvel, Endo, Darwin's Waiting Room). The lesser known bands have the exact same sound as the mainstream bands, so that's propbably why Nu-Metal gets hated on. The music doesn't really change from band to band that drastically, with certain exceptions (System of a Down, Deftones). Nu-Metal is a genre that has a ton of bands, but all anyone needs to do is listen to a few choice songs and they've pretty much heard everything the genre is capable of.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I just find a lot of nu-metal boring. Like any genre, it's not all bad. There are songs here and there that I like, but I can't think of any nu-metal albums that are great all the way through. To me that doesn't speak very well of it as a style of music.

Henry Rollins might be the most self-centered, egotistical, bull**** artist since P. T. Barnum. I don't know if theres someone I hate more than that ****ing idiot.

Yet his analysis of nu-metal is spot on.

I like Rollins.

Me too. I always have. I guess he's off putting to some but he seems pretty intelligent, hard-working, and sincere to me.

Hes in your face and some people can't deal with it. I find him pretty engaging live both his music and spoken word shows. I've also loved every book hes ever written and Black Flag pretty much takes a dump on most punk bands in history.

I think it's due to the fact that most people who are somewhat familiar with nu metal think of bands like "Slipknot", "Korn", and "Limp Bizkit" which turns them away from the genre. I'm not saying those are bad bands, they just aren't my favorite; there are many talented nu metal bands that don't get the recognition they deserve.

On a side note, I do think the song structure in nu metal does make it seem boring to some metalheads. The lack of guitar solos could also be part of this. Even so, I still really like nu metal...alot!

I would agree with the lack of guitar solos not appealing to true metalheads. I think most people are open minded when it comes to bands like The Deftones and they are pretty set on an atmospheric sound as opposed to a distortion/guitars on 10 sound. I like a few of the mentioned bands most notably Sepultura and Deftones and I enjoyed SOAD live they really are impressive in a live setting, but overall I generally snub the genre.

Rollins is the ****.

New thread topic: Henry Rollins. **** nu metal.

Really though, SOAD doesn't incorporate rapping into their music. Serj does strange things with his voice and uses odd rhythms, but never raps. I think the only reason they were considered Nu Metal was due to the timing of the popularity and the how unique they sounded. If they had come out five years earlier I don't think they would have been pigeonholed into Nu-Metal, even retrospectively.
That said, I don't really mind Nu Metal; I even like Linkin Park's first two albums as well as a good amount of Slipknot's work.

I've never considered rapping to be an essential element of nu-metal personally. It's often part of the equation, but a band can be nu-metal without it.

I don't hear any hip-hoppy elements in SOAD, and that is essential to nu metal imo.

I've never thought they sounded like nu metal, except maybe a bit on "Prison Song" and "Sugar".

To me the big defining attributes of nu-metal are the crunchy guitars and a certain groovy, hard to define approach to rhythm that is very different from the metal that came before it. I think a song like this fits the bill, it even kind of has rapping in it:

Indeed, it does.



Exactly what I was getting at. It just doesn't sound like metal, so it makes me want to chuck that Korn album across the store, because it just doesn't belong in the metal section. Nor does Staind, though I like Staind a little bit. They simply are not metal. But the Slipknot I've heard sounds metal enough. I've only heard but two of their albums, though: S/T and Iowa.

Dont get me wrong, just because its not metal doesnt mean its a bad genre. Its just that the term Nu Metal isnt appropriate. Especially the Metal word, it makes people think they're going to hear a new kind of metal genre, only to realize that's not the case at all.

cause the "older people" kids born in like 1979-84 it was something new to them

Kinda like i loved NU metal but after that when Screamo ANd NU Hardcore rose at first i was like Uhhh what ...well thats kinda what it was like for them

They grew up on THrash/Death metal 90-94 industrail goth or whatever they were into at the time real extreme stuff and when NU metal came out with there more streamlined riffs and electronics added on they were like WHAT !!!!!

wat

Are you serious? I doubt thats how they reacted when nu metal was created. Not everyone of these older people grew up on thrash/death metal. And many also even enjoy nu metal, even those who grew up on other metal genres.

Yes everyone is different but thats just the vibe i was getting from the teenagers of the mid 90's

i just know how some people act cause thats the same way i reacted to Screamo and NU hardcore around 03-06 i didnt know much about it so i rejected it at first

The problem with nu metal isn't that it's a genre of bad ideas, it's that it's built on too few ideas to even sustain a couple of bands long term, let alone an entire genre of bands. The first couple of albums from Korn, Coal Chamber, Incubus, and the first Static-X, Orgy, Mudvayne, and Kittie albums were all great in my book, but after that it got real formulaic and boring really fast.


I was born in 1980, and yes I listened to a lot of industrial in my teens, but other than that I have no Idea what you are talking about, at the time people my age seemed to be into nu metal even more than the people ~5-10 yrs younger than me.

hmmm that weird for the people born in 1980 they were 13 years old in 93

and 11-13 is when most people start buying or getting into there own "music" well i guess they were into early NU metal really there are two phases of nu metal i think 93-97 and then 00-03

anywayz i was 13 when nu metal first came out so i like Nu metal i grew up with it ...but i dont think i never turned into this elite music person like some people now i like everything form the past and current stuff

The first Korn album came out in late 94, and didn't get big(ish) till late in 95, and that was just the foreshadowing of Nu metal. IMO "3 Dollar Bill Yall"(97) is the first album of the nu-metal period, and the Strokes "Is This It"(late 2001) signaled the beginning of the end. That puts Nu Metals heyday from approx 97-02 which would put my generation pretty much right in the middle of the main music buying demographic at the time. I'm not saying your overall theory is wrong, but the age range you listed in your first post is definitely off, people my age were the ones who made Nu Metal big.

i was born in 85 so yeah i was 11 in 96 didnt really get into korn till 97 there 3rd record so yeah i guess so i caught the mid way point

someone born in 1980 by the time he was 12 it was 1992 still a good 3 years away from Nu metal but pretty much got to see Thrash/Death metal heyday Industrail heyday and bands LIKE Faith no more and tool Guns n roses etc etc etc i doubt he was even thinking about NU metal in 1992 KORN and SLipknot were still in there basements LOL

and man in 1992 Grunge was KING around 1995 thats when KOrn came around and pretty much KIlled Grunge well grunge killed its self but u get my point

Korn has a lot of grunge influences in their music man. Especially the first album, that one just sounds like grunge with an odd guitar sound and angst-ridden vocals from Jonathan Davis. Ive heard that album a couple times so I know what Im talking about. Though I guess Im not so good when it comes to describing music.

to be honest though I think there wasnt really any pure nu metal album before Korn's first album back in 1994. So Im guessing they basically founded the genre, or at least, made it become quite popular. Limp bizkit did a good job about that too.

Nu metal was starting in like 1988-90 TBO

with bands like

Tool
Green jelly
Faith no more
Helmet
Mr bungle
Primus
Kings X
Urban dance squad

etc etc etc


thoes are some of the bands thas heavily influnced Nu metal bands of the late 90's

Influenced yes, but calling any of those bands Nu-metal is wrong.

i honestly think nu-metal gets a bad rap because the moniker is just so ridiculous. it just looks stupid. anyone with a brain in their head is going to look at that word and just think "desperate."

i used to be right into limp bizkit, and i gotta say that their first album is incredibly inventive musically. i'm never one to pay too much attention to words in music, and i say this because every time durst opens his mouth to talk i wanna put firecrackers in there, and for this reason i find myself feeling a bit embarrassed to think that i still dig that album. john otto is a seriously talented drummer.

as far as defining elements of the music, it seems to me that something very prevalent in the genre is groove. it all flows pretty good, and i'm a great lover of funk music so i can totally dig that about it. something that bothers me about a lot of it is the attitude. a lot of cocky heirs of entitlement who - musically speaking - are masters in no sense of the word. i like a lot of it regardless though. incubus' first two albums were pretty bomb-ass, system kills it, rage (obviously) is awesome although toward the end they kind of became pioneers of recycling, and i don't know if marilyn manson falls into this category (i honestly hate categorizing music cuz it's all just music, but i try to roll with it as best i can regardless) but i f*ckin love that guy's first three or four albums. don't listen to a lot of this stuff any more, but i still appreciate a lot of it.

and them's ma' pennies.