Isbjørn

Siggin' this

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Paul Smeenus

Except that, even though I am a Zep fan, he has a point. Two songs, "You Shook Me" and "I Can't Quit You Baby" are credited to Willie Dixon, much of the rest of Zep I can be proven to be lifted from other artists. Forgive me anyone that already knows this.





I am personally of the opinion that Peter Grant is a principle villain in this. Maybe I just want to believe that...

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Unknown Soldier

Most of what you've said is common knowledge, but the lifting of riffs etc was commonly done back then as it is now. Led Zep seem to get a lot of flak for it, mostly from people who don't like the band and these same people are sometimes blind to the practices of other bands. The problem is Led Zep were huge and they were under a much bigger magnifying glass than other bands. At the end of the day, they may have stolen a few coats that belonged to others, but they wore them damn better than most. Also I'd agree with your finger pointing at Peter Grant.

I've always found especially in the UK, that plagiarism is the evil or all evils in the academic and artistic world, everybody does it though, but some are better at disguising than others though.

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Pounding Decibels- A Hard and Heavy History

The Batlord

So KISS are better than the Rolling Stones whose first two albums were almost entirely covers? Or the Beatles for that matter? Elvis Presley? Legitimate studio albums of covers were not in any odd back then so judging a band for it is silly.

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Paul Smeenus

With the crucial difference that those covers are credited.

And again, I'm a big Zep fan.

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The Batlord

But the point was that KISS were better than Zep just because they wrote their own songs.

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Screen13

Re: this whole Zeppelin/Kiss stuff happening here...
Paul's point taken, and added with tricks Jimmy Page learned while he was a Yardbird, but in the end with better albums later on, Zeppelin had the wattage, swagger, and kick ass drumming that formed a sound that was like a brute who you knew would win the fight. Zeppelin 1 was the Blues-print for what happened next - a warm up that was already heating up (sorry for the very bad pun, but there it is).

Kiss were just as derivative, more so in my opinion, but instead were Exploitation Movie Directors about it by taking things and rearranging them from the title and maybe reversing the riffs and covering it up in the circus show manner that would get attention. They developed their inner CEOs on that first album enough not to go beyond loud stomping songs about back stage sex and teen dreams - when they did, they may have showed their true talents, but lost their listeners. The best songwriting plan was to take a song they knew had elements that would make a good simple song, even if it's just the title filled with calculated riffs that obviosuly were influenced from somewhere lese and turn it into their own - As for turning titles into their own songs: Think Springsteen's "Sandy" and turn it into "Shandi", think the Move's "Fire Brigade" and turn it into "Firehouse" and so on - Paul Stanley even admitted to that strategy on their second set of their DVD collection. Kiss may have wrote most of their stuff (although at times they did enlist the help of established songwriters like Kim Fowley on "King of the Night Time World" and Desmond Child on several others), but it was strictly in the grand tradition of Bubblegum on steroids - no wonder why Neil Bogart took a liking to them. Their debut was the blue print for them just repeating themselves through the next few albums. Good ones that require no brain power to get into, but still very repetitive - you get what you pay for.

My opinions - What about the ballad "Beth"? - To me it's kind of like a Rocker's version of a Barry Manilow style. Going Disco on "I Was Made For Loving You" co written with Desmond Child? I view it as a Banana Splits song took to Studio 54.

Same swipe, but different ways of applying that swipe. Not a criticism or complaint, just an observation.

neardeathexperience

I've heard the songs off that "Elder " album Kiss did and I bet they wish they had not got the writing credits for those ones (lol)

Paul Smeenus

For the record I prefer Zep to Kiss. All I meant was that Endureth had a point, I just didn't think he should've been dismissed.

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neardeathexperience

To be honest I actually think that Jimmy Page brought his love for the older blue's artists style with him from working with John Mayall and the Yardbirds and just tried to replicate their sound due to his love for it. As for Kiss I don't think that you can even compare them other then both bands had people who played guitars and drums in them........