Music Banter - Tony Iommi or Jimmy Page?

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- - Tony Iommi or Jimmy Page? (https://www.musicbanter.com/rock-n-roll-classic-rock-60s-rock/60563-tony-iommi-jimmy-page.html)

The Stairway solo is pretty easy, I learned it by ear when I was nine.

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Originally Posted by Chula Vista (Post 1738747)

Jane, you ignorant slut.

:confused:

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Originally Posted by Chula Vista (Post 1738747)

The bad rap that Page gets is based off of mostly shows during the 75 and 77 tours where he was getting too wasted and as a result, sloppy.

His playing on the albums is both technical and brilliant for that genre. Have you ever sat down and tried to learn solos like Achilles Last Stand, Since I've been Loving You, Black Dog, and yes, even Stairway to Heaven? His note choices, the subtle little ways he accents his bends, his vibrato, and how the melody perfectly fits the song is much harder to replicate that you think.

Back then I could play Sabbath, Aerosmith, Nugent, UFO, ZZ Top, etc. well before I was able to accurately pull off Page.

And the thing is, if you can't pull off a great act playing live, how am I supposed to believe that you can play when it's not on a studio album? I get your point here, but a guitar player should be able to play live and in studio.

I don't focus to heavily on Led Zeppelin because I find them boring and somewhat lame, but again, I never said the band or Page were bad. My whole point here is that he shouldn't automatically be considered one of the greats just because he was part of an iconic band. If we're really focusing on how a guitar player can play, Jimmy Page really isn't up there.

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Originally Posted by Frownland (Post 1738750)

The Stairway solo is pretty easy, I learned it by ear when I was nine.

Playing it is pretty easy. Playing it right is actually pretty hard.

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Originally Posted by Chula Vista (Post 1738752)

Playing it is pretty easy. Playing it right is actually pretty hard.

Jimmy Page will be the first one to tell you that

:drummer:

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Originally Posted by Frownland (Post 1738753)

Jimmy Page will be the first one to tell you that

:drummer:

:laughing:

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Originally Posted by Ki (Post 1738751)

:confused:

It's a Saturday Night Live reference.

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And the thing is, if you can't pull off a great act playing live, how am I supposed to believe that you can play when it's not on a studio album?

His playing live was killer most of the time except for when he got to drunk/wasted which is pretty typical with most musicians.

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Originally Posted by Chula Vista (Post 1738755)

His playing live was killer most of the time except for when he got to drunk/wasted which is pretty typical with most musicians.

That's true. I actually saw Zack Wylde play a solo while he was on his side because he was ****faced. It was possibly the greatest thing I'd ever seen.

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Originally Posted by Ki (Post 1738740)

We may end up needing to agree to disagree to stay away from further name calling,

That's entirely up to you. This is a pet topic of mine, so I'll continue with it as long as you'd like to. I've been doing work on this topic (including from an academic perspective) and writing and talking and debating etc. about it for about 40 years now. I don't mind however many posts you'd be interested in so that I can try to get you to think about it a bit more in depth.

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if the bold were true, guitar lessons would be completely irrelevant.

Because you think that people have no preferences or desires to play particular ways rather than other ways? I'm not saying that people do not have preferences, am I? What, do you think that people only prefer to play particular ways because there's an objective fact that playing that way is better? The idea of that is completely absurd.

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And again, I want to focus on the fact that I have admitted a few times that Jimmy Page is not a mediocre guitar player,

There are no facts that he's good or bad or that he doesn't completely suck or that he's not the best, miles beyond anyone else. We're not dealing with facts when we talk about this stuff. We're dealing with our tastes, our preferences. What we individually like or do not like.

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but he's certainly not skilled in the art to be considered one of the best.

That's fine as a statement of how you personally feel. Just don't believe that it's anything like a fact, or correct.

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He's sloppy a lot of the time,

"Playing in way x, where I call that 'sloppy,' is not as good as playing in way y, where I call that 'not sloppy,' but rather quite precise, etc."<------That's not a fact. It would be a way that you feel. It would be a statement about what you prefer.

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and the only thing he's particularly amazing at is creating a rhythm that the rest of the band can feed off of.

Again, that's fine as the way you feel, but it's nothing like a fact.

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But the ability to play guitar isn't always subjective

What's good and bad, better and best, is ALWAYS subjective. Not just when we're talking about how someone plays a guitar. Not just when we're talking about music. Not just when we're talking about ethics. Not just when we're talking about someone's health. When we're talking about ANYTHING.

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Originally Posted by Ki (Post 1738756)

That's true. I actually saw Zack Wylde play a solo while he was on his side because he was ****faced. It was possibly the greatest thing I'd ever seen.

Zack wilde, alcoholism saved his life,

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Originally Posted by Frownland (Post 1738753)

Jimmy Page will be the first one to tell you that.

Dumbass, I was talking about the album version. But he also killed and embellished nicely live.

FF to 6:10