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Old 04-24-2006, 06:01 AM   #31 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by moley
heh, they're dictionary bashers dude, they sit around forums all day trying to correct people, just pretend they're not there and they might go away, and we can get back to discussing music. (yay!)
Yeah, sorry again, its just when someone tries to play the geek card I can't help but play mine.

Plus, when you said this
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keep it simple, only a few people are good enough to be exceptionally in depth and clever about their lyrics and manage to make them then follow on by sounding good over a song, it's as much an acomplishment to write lyrics with simplistic values but that fit fantastically well over a song, take ac/dc for example, fantastic lyricists and their lyrics weren't very in depth at all.
You also summed up my own opinion excellently and I would happily argue the arse off anybody who disagreed with you.
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When Pete plays it is 100% live , your music if that's what you call it doesn't sound so good either? so you can't really critercize can you ?
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Old 04-24-2006, 06:02 AM   #32 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by DontRunMeOver
Yeah, sorry again, its just when someone tries to play the geek card I can't help but play mine.
i think its grand you seem to discourage them atleast.

i might start posting my lyrics on this thing actually, s'pose i better write some.
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Old 04-24-2006, 06:23 AM   #33 (permalink)
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Is anybody here serious about writing? Does anybody even have a clear idea about why they write the way they do? The point of devoting so much time and energy towards it?

...because I'm left here asking myself, Did they not understand what this thread was about? Do they really have no idea about their aims as songwriters, and how their writing style relates to their aims?

Because this thread had NOTHING to do with whether one style is better than another. Even the most banal, cliche pop-lyrics have a purpose.

Seriously...I keep waiting for something...anything to be posted which relates to the thread, but it's like nobody even read the question properly. *sigh*
You're right, We have been sidetracked a lot by griping. As you can tell, for a bunch of us here, our aim is to convey a story to music, using language which is simple enough that our story doesn't get lost in the vocubulary.

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Seeing as this forum is about song writing, I guess it's not inappropriate to veer from reviews and onto some meta-writting topics.

I was just wondering what people's personal thoughts on lyric writing were (why you do it? personal aims in writing a song? way you go about it? personal inspirations?), and what kind of music you tend to like or emulate.

Just thought it might be an interesting point of discussion, because I imagine it would be wildly varried across writers.
The way that I go about songwriting is like this...

1. With my band we come up with a guitar riff, from which we develop a complete band backing and write most of the instrumental part to the song.
2. While we're writing the rough instrumentation to the song, I'll be singing different vocal melodies over the top, until I hit upon a particularly effective one (or a few)
3. From the best vocal melodies, I'll come up with a selection of lyrical hooks for the chorus melody.
4. I'll keep a number of these chorus melody/lyric combinations stewing in my head for a few days... what I'll usually do is have no set topic for the song and will come up with a lyrical topic for the whole song based on the chorus hookline.
5. Once I've set myself on one topic I'll write the verse lyrics for it pretty quickly and will prune them to fit the music.
6. This is how I write about 80% of the songs for my band, most of the others were written on acoustic (lyrics and music simultaneously) and only one was written before being put to music.


My reasons for writing music is purely that, to write music (because I love music and love writing it), although for writing lyrics I try to do two things:

1. Write about a topic that I've at least thought about it enough to have enough creative missiles to throw at it.
2. Write about something that a lyric hasn't been written about before.

And achieve these things I do, mmmm.
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When Pete plays it is 100% live , your music if that's what you call it doesn't sound so good either? so you can't really critercize can you ?
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Old 04-24-2006, 07:22 AM   #34 (permalink)
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how we write,

usually it consists of our lead singer/ guitarist first developing the guitar part or atleast most of it, then we'll decide on a vocal melody. then he'll write the lyrics, usually his lyrical influences shine through, his lyrics are simplistic and tend to take the piss out of different features in our local society, for instance our last song was made to completely take the piss out of a type of people that generally dominate our school.
and his latest song 'dirty dan' though he wont admit it is about his ex girlfriend dan who was a sleazy tart that got round alot.
there's not much to say about the way he writes he simply writes to the vocal melody and tries to make it flow, then we lay down the bass and drums and fiddle a bit, usually in the recording of our songs hell almost always harmonize his voice over for the chorus which is sure enough most likely going to be a vocal hook, heh hes ac/dc obsessed, he'll always use a vocal hook. so yeah that's how we write ours.
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Old 04-24-2006, 09:15 PM   #35 (permalink)
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DontRunMeOver:
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Once I've set myself on one topic I'll write the verse lyrics for it pretty quickly
*sigh* I'm so incredibly jealous. Setting a theme and going with it, is a skill I am yet to master.


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Me personally, I cannot write just to write. I have to be inspired by something, an event, person, thing, etc. But when inspired I think that is when the true magic of writing happens. It definitely doesn't happen when it is "forced"!
Argh, it is so true. So many pages of lyrics scribbled out, ripped up and thrown out because they were written under duress. The worst is the feeling that the emptiness of forced lyrics will be apparant. That anyone who reads them will see through the facade. You're totally right about being inspired.

Even so, I don't think i've ever had a clear pre-writing inspiration, only a niggling feeling that something warrants more attention. I was wondering, do you have a clear idea what you're gonna write before you start? It seems like it would be difficult.


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his latest song 'dirty dan' though he wont admit it is about his ex girlfriend dan who was a sleazy tart that got round alot
Moley: aww, the poor girl Nothing quite like an unflattering immortalisation in song. It's up there with memorable F-U's, eh!

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hell almost always harmonize his voice over for the chorus which is sure enough most likely going to be a vocal hook, heh hes ac/dc obsessed, he'll always use a vocal hook
Go the vocal hooks! Although the darn things infect your brain...start unconsciously headbanging and or humming in the middle of exams or in the silent area of the library!...dirty looks from the library folk and/or person next to you. Damn you and your kind !
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Old 04-24-2006, 09:16 PM   #36 (permalink)
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All lyrics, are poetic.
Prose is not lyrics as you tried to use as an example Moley.
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Old 04-24-2006, 09:20 PM   #37 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by moley
i was under the impression that it could be put across as simply 'literature'

words written over a musical melody so to speak, hense forth are lyrics but...

the narration to peter and the wolf is not poetry it explains what the different features of the orchestra represent, the verse to demon hunter along with alot of other steeleye span songs are simply stories, they're not written to have any poetic license to them
and once in a life time by talking heads the verse is more of a speach really.

they're still all lyrics, just not what would be considered poetry.
In that sense, any time a song is 'spoken' we call that 'spoken word'. The only reason they are sometimes refered to as lyrics is because people are used to songs consisting of lyrics, and still refer to spoken word as lyrical which it is not. Lyrics are poetry. There for all lyrics are poetry, but all poetry is not lyrical so therefore not all poetry is lyrics.....get it?
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Old 04-24-2006, 09:56 PM   #38 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by A_Perfect_Sonnet
None of you are good writers anyway, so I can see why you wouldn't understand that lyrics are a form of poetry. Kudos to your ignorance.
^ nicest guy on the forum.

Seriously, man...your poetry isn't that great either. Stop using the internet to feel better about yourself.
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Old 04-25-2006, 02:31 AM   #39 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by bungalowbill357
In that sense, any time a song is 'spoken' we call that 'spoken word'. The only reason they are sometimes refered to as lyrics is because people are used to songs consisting of lyrics, and still refer to spoken word as lyrical which it is not. Lyrics are poetry. There for all lyrics are poetry, but all poetry is not lyrical so therefore not all poetry is lyrics.....get it?
To consider something as poetry, by the normal definitions, it has to use language in a way which is more beautiful, or more rhythmic, or more vivid, or somehow more creative than the way in which language is typically used in everyday conversation. I agree that MOST lyrics are poetic/poetry, but it is entirely possible to sing non-poetic words to music, fitting them to a melody, which is enough for them to be described as lyrics. The pure fact that they are sung isn't enough to promote the words to the title of poetry, as the definition of poetry comes from the use of the use of vocabulary and grammar, not from the context in which that vocabulary and grammar is read.

AC/DCs lyrics, however (although Moley disagrees), are a form of poetry but they are very simple and clear poetry. They do use metaphor, rhyming and specific meters, so they definitely count as poetry.
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When Pete plays it is 100% live , your music if that's what you call it doesn't sound so good either? so you can't really critercize can you ?
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Old 04-25-2006, 02:31 AM   #40 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bungalowbill357
In that sense, any time a song is 'spoken' we call that 'spoken word'. The only reason they are sometimes refered to as lyrics is because people are used to songs consisting of lyrics, and still refer to spoken word as lyrical which it is not. Lyrics are poetry. There for all lyrics are poetry, but all poetry is not lyrical so therefore not all poetry is lyrics.....get it?
To consider something as poetry, by the normal definitions, it has to use language in a way which is more beautiful, or more rhythmic, or more vivid, or somehow more creative than the way in which language is typically used in everyday conversation. I agree that MOST lyrics are poetic/poetry, but it is entirely possible to sing non-poetic words to music, fitting them to a melody, which is enough for them to be described as lyrics. The pure fact that they are sung isn't enough to promote the words to the title of poetry, as the definition of poetry comes from the use of the use of vocabulary and grammar, not from the context in which that vocabulary and grammar is read.

AC/DCs lyrics, however (although Moley disagrees), are a form of poetry but they are very simple and clear poetry. They do use metaphor, rhyming and specific meters, so they definitely count as poetry.
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When Pete plays it is 100% live , your music if that's what you call it doesn't sound so good either? so you can't really critercize can you ?
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