VEGANGELICA

Hello you,

I've been thinking recently that all songs can be categorized as either songs of pleasure or songs of coping, or some combination of the two.

Several months ago I wrote the following lyrics for a loved one to show my overall perspective on the effect his love and his loss have had on my life. It is both a song of pleasure and a song of coping. Even though I told him almost everything that I say in the song while he was alive, I wish very much that I could tell him again.

After the lyrics I'll explain the references I made in them to literature and music, for those of you who are interested. Thanks to ribbons (aka Liz) and our discussion of the song "Julia" by John Lennon/The Beatles, I have been thinking of the way short songs can expand their meanings by paraphrasing or quoting poetry or other outside sources, which reminded me of the love song that I had written for *my* loved one.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

"True Enchanter" -- for Jack by Erica

You were the sweetest part of my life.
You sang a melody only I could hear.
Touched by every word,
my imagination stirred,
my true enchanter.

You were the sweetest part of my day,
my darling confident confidant.
Your love made it easy
to covet our sincerity,
and you gave me what I want.

Our meeting felt like magic.
You were so playful and romantic.
You were the most magnetic person I ever met.
You had a way of engaging me
with your caring, wit, and honesty.
Oh please, I don’t want us to be over yet.

You were the sweetest part of my nights
when darkness brought you near,
the distance between us spanned.
I covered you with reality
where you were dreaming with me
in silence, hand in hand.

And our loving felt like magic.
You were so deeply romantic.
You were the most magnetic man I ever met.
I loved your way of engaging me
with your daring, wit, and honesty.
Oh please, I don’t want us to be over yet.
I don’t want us to be over yet.

You were the saddest part of my life,
so close to me and then so far.
Oh, how I wish you knew
my love remains with you
everywhere you are.

Our meeting felt like magic.
We were so hopefully romantic.
You were the most magnetic person I ever met.
You had a way of engaging me
with caring, wit, and honesty.
Oh please, I don’t want us to be over yet.

Our loving felt like magic,
so open and romantic.
You were the most magnetic man I ever met.
I loved your way of engaging me
with daring, wit, and honesty.
Oh please, I don’t want us to be over yet.
I don’t want us to be over yet

slowly I’m learning
I’ll always be yearning
for time with you that I will never get,
and though it hurts to remember
how our spring became December,
it hurts less to remember than forget
and I’ll never forget...

you were the sweetest part of my life.
You sang a melody only I could hear.
Touched by every word,
my imagination stirred,
my true enchanter.

Touched by every word,
our imagination stirred,
my true enchanter.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Now, in case you are wondering, I'll explain the references I made in the song. I based the lyrics on two of my favorite quotes about love (the second of which I shared with my loved one last year) and on two songs (“Everywhere” and “Within You Without You”) that he and I both liked. I also included a reference to the song “Cover Me” by Bruce Springsteen:

Washington Irving: "He is the true enchanter, whose spell operates, not upon the senses, but upon the imagination and the heart."

Oscar Wilde: “You don't love someone for their looks, or their clothes, or for their fancy car, but because they sing a song only you can hear.”

Fleetwood Mac: "Everywhere”
"I want to be with you everywhere.”

The Beatles: "Within You Without You"
"We were talking about the space between us all
And the people who hide themselves behind a wall of illusion,
Never glimpse the truth, then it's far too late, when they pass away.
We were talking about the love we all could share,
When we find it, to try our best to hold it there with our love"

Bruce Sprinsteen: “Cover Me”
"The times are tough now, just getting tougher.
This old world is rough, it's just getting rougher.
Cover me, come on baby, cover me.
Well I'm looking for a lover who will come on in and cover me.”

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someonecompletelyrandom

Very nice, I loved the illusions to the other works.

ribbons

Erica, thank you for sharing your beautiful song for Jack, and I also love the references. Your lyrics relay such a strong sense of what Jack was like as a person and the reasons why you loved him so much.

In reading the lyrics you quoted from "Within You Without You", I immediately thought of the following passage by Indian poet Rabindranath Tagore. Just thought I'd post it here, in honor of Jack's memory and the very special bond you shared.

"Those who are near me do not know that you are nearer to me than they are
Those who speak to me do not know that my heart is full with your unspoken words
Those who crowd in my path do not know that I am walking alone with you
They who love me do not know that their love brings you to my heart."

VEGANGELICA

Thanks for your feedback, Conan.

I think the downside of the allusions I made is that almost no one would get them if I didn't explain what they are! "Everywhere" isn't going to make most people think automatically of the song "Everywhere," for example ... but it was part of the private language specific to my relationship to that individual, and so I liked using references he would have understood immediately.

Liz, thank you so much for that lovely quote from Indian poet Rabindranath Tagore in honor of Jack and my memories of him. The quote is beautiful and so very true, I've found. I am comforted by reading words that show other people understand the emotions of losing an intimate loved one.

I had never heard of Rabindranath Tagore before (Rabindranath Tagore - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia), so thank you for introducing me to him. I had completely missed learning of this very creative individual. Tagore's dedication to his creative spirit throughout his life is inspiring.

I read on Wikipedia that Tagore's wife and two of his children died before him. Perhaps their loss inspired the quote? I also read that he died after excruciating pain, which is sad: "A period of prolonged agony ended with Tagore's death on 7 August 1941, aged eighty." I always hope that the joy of having lived a full life isn't completely eradicated by the pain of dying. I am moved by his last poem, dictated to a friend, which reminded me of my loved one for several reasons:

“I'm lost in the middle of my birthday. I want my friends, their touch, with the earth's last love. I will take life's final offering, I will take the human's last blessing. Today my sack is empty. I have given completely whatever I had to give. In return if I receive anything—some love, some forgiveness—then I will take it with me when I step on the boat that crosses to the festival of the wordless end." ~ Rabindranath Tagore

I always feel some comfort from knowing that my loved one's boat was not empty when he crossed to "the festival of the wordless end," because my love went with him.

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VEGANGELICA

I was inspired by a MusicBanter member two years ago to write and record the following song about flirtatious friendship. I based the lyrics on the saying, "No man is an island," since really no man *is* an island...not even when his "palm tree" makes him think otherwise.

I always feel thankful toward people who cause me to think of making a song, because I enjoy the creative process so much. So, thank you, you.

"Isle"


Isle by VEGANGELICA - YouTube

Lyrics:

You surprise me by being disarming.
You charm me by saying I'm charming.
So suggestive, you're seductive as sin:
you open your arms so I'll pretend to fall in.

You're delightful, like trick candles on a cake,
always teasing me with the love we don't make.
You're so attentive, watching for an opening
as we dally together without having a fling.

No man is an island, you remind me.
We're all connected despite the bloody great sea
that divides us by the skin of a hand or the span of a mile,
yet you manage to reach me from your distant isle.

You're so kinky, sometimes it gives me a rush.
You're so descriptive, you can make me flush.
You seem so innocent and then deliciously depraved,
acting civil right after you know you've misbehaved.

You're so perverted even when you're sweet.
You tell me things that would make me blush to repeat.
You're unexpected, like free tickets to a show
and you offer them to me though you know I can't go.

Oh, no man is an island, you remind me.
We're all connected despite the bloody great sea
that divides us by the skin of a hand or the span of a mile.

No man is an island, you remind me.
We're all connected despite the bloody great sea
that divides us by the skin of a hand or the span of a mile
yet you manage to reach me and make me smile.

While away part of your day,
if you want to, leisurely with me.
Forget philosophy and just be...

surprised when I'm being disarming,
charmed when I'm trying to be charming,
shocked a bit when I'm seductive as sin
and open my arms so you'll imagine falling in.

You're like a playmate without the magazine.
You're so polite right before you act obscene.
You're like a first date...you make me want to pretend.
But most of all, under all, you feel like a friend.

You're delightful, like trick candles on a cake,
always teasing me with the love we don't make.
You're so attentive, watching for an opening
as we dally together without having a fling.

You're like a playmate without the magazine.
You're so polite right before you act obscene.
You're like a first date...I'm wondering what you'll do,
but most of all, under all, I like you.

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VEGANGELICA

Hello MB (and visitors!),

Some of you may have noticed that I have zero tolerance for verbal abuse on MusicBanter. By zero tolerance, I mean that when I observe verbally abusive comments, I usually mention it and say that I feel the behavior isn't okay.

I've decided in this post to explain one reason I confront verbal abuse so strongly. I'll do this by sharing the lyrics of a song that I wrote some time ago about my worst experiences with a significant other who had a personality disorder.

If you have ever loved someone who tends to use verbal and emotional abuse, such as a person with a personality disorder, then you have probably experienced the mixture of sadness for the individual you care about who suffers in so many ways, and awareness that you need to protect yourself by erecting strong personal boundaries. An excellent summary of emotional abuse is provided by Patricia Evans in her book The Verbally Abusive Relationship: How to recognize it and how to respond (an excerpt can be viewed at http://forum2.aimoo.com/narcissistic...-1-447142.html).

Protecting yourself includes stating whenever you notice the person is being emotionally abusive. Protecting yourself may mean leaving entirely, even though you know the person loves you.

I remember that when I wrote the following song lyrics, I had not yet learned enough about personality disorders to recognize them. I was simply describing how this person I loved treated me during the worst of the bad times, and how I felt when it got to the point where his confusingly cruel, tumultuous, and frightening behavior overshadowed the positives in the relationship:

* * * * *

“Won” by Erica

We disagree, you start a fight,
you say you’ll stop, then make a slight.
I can’t win with you.
I can’t win.

When I feel hurt, you put me down,
say I’m too sensitive to be around.
I can’t win with you.
I can’t win with you

telling me to tell you everything,
yet when I do you start to fling
caustic comments viciously.
You treat me so dismissively
I know I can’t win with you.
I know I can’t win.

So I will win on my own
self-respect and protect
my emotions if you won’t.
I will build on my own
self-esteem and my dreams
I’ll support when you don’t.
I will win on my own.

You mock me, a verbal choke,
then tell me I can’t take a joke.
I can’t win with you.
I can’t win.

When I refuse to play your games
where I’m the ball, you call me names.
I can’t win with you.
I can’t win with you

knowing right where to strike,
you tear down what I most like
about myself, then when I vent
you blame me for resentment.
I know I can’t win with you.
I know I can’t win.

So I will win on my own
self-respect and protect
my emotions if you won’t.
I will build on my own
self-esteem and my dreams
I’ll support when you don’t.
I will win on my own.

Denigrating those who ridicule,
you turn around and say I’m a fool,
then when I’m sad, you angrily
withhold your love from me.
I wonder where your kindness went.
I thought I was the one for you,
yet you act like I’m beneath contempt.
Trying to beat me one-on-one,
you’re losing when you think you’ve won.

I’m still in love with you
for all you are that’s wonderful.
I wish you the best, love,
but I am no fool.
I know I can’t win with you.
I know I can’t win...

so I will win on my own
self-respect and protect
my emotions if you won’t.
I will build on my own
self-esteem and my dreams
I’ll support when you don’t.

I will win on my own
self-respect and protect
my emotions if you won’t.
I will build on my own
self-esteem and my dreams
I’ll support when you don’t.

I will win on my own.

* * * * *

^ The saddest part of this relationship was to see someone I love experience the emotional turmoil that led him to strike out at me, wonderful, honest, brave, playful, compassionate, smart me!

I had to realize that I couldn't take his putdowns and negative perceptions personally (although I always did, at some level). I challenged his hurtful behaviors and perceptions that seemed incorrect to me. I tried to do this calmly and kindly, reminding myself that people often need love and patience the most when they are the most unlovable. And we aren't talking about occasional callous behavior. The cruelest comments that people make on MB look like child's play compared to those of someone with a personality disorder when you are in a relationship with that person, and he has access to all your private thoughts and emotions.

Unfortunately, the hardest step for someone with a personality disorder appears to be recognizing that she or he has one. This isn't too surprising, because I think many people in the general population aren't aware of the signs of a personality disorder, and few of us like to admit there might be something wrong with us.

Examples of personality disorders are anti-social personality disorder (Anti-Social Personality Disorder) and obsessive compulsive personality disorder (OCPD). The article called "The Right Stuff - Obsessive Compulsive Personality Disorder: A Defect of Philosophy, not Anxiety" by Dr. Steven Phillipson gives an excellent description of OCPD (OCD ONLINE - The RIGHT Stuff - Obsessive Compulsive Personality Disorder: A defect of Philosophy, not Anxiety).

The good news is that if you have a personality disorder and become self-aware, then hope exists that you can learn to temper and change your reactions. You can possibly avoid a pattern of broken relationships, lost jobs and opportunities, substance abuse, and problems with the law. An optimistic blog about living with a personality disorder is The Gift of OCPD (The Gift of OCPD), written by a young man who realized he has OCPD.

So after reading my lyrics, if you recognize that someone close to you is reacting to your behaviors in the same way I describe, please consider that you may have a personality disorder and seek help.

And if you are someone who has experienced a relationship that made you feel as awful as I did during the worst times in mine, then I recommend you visit this website for people with personality disorders and their loved ones: Out of the FOG (Out of the FOG - Personality Disorder Support). A great forum also exists for people who are dealing specifically with OCPD (Obsessive-Compulsive Personality Disorder Support Group • Index page).

I wish I had learned about personality disorders much earlier than I did, not only for my sake because that knowledge would have helped me deal more effectively with my significant other, but also for my loved one's sake.

Here is more detailed information about OCPD, for those who are interested:

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Newkie

I'm not a great analyst so my feedback will be pretty feeble, but you have some really great lines there that typify the experience of being involved with someone with personality or even just serious mood disorders. I know that's how I felt a lot of the time when I was in that situation.

Always a problem when you yourself suffer from common issues like self esteem and anxiety, discussing it with them seems so trivial so you avoid it. When you confide in them and everything's going well it's not so bad, you know they've dealt with worse and they can still help you, even if they can't exactly help themselves. But as soon it turns sour they can really seem like they want to destroy you. I wasn't in that bad a spot though, the girl I was with knew about her issues, acceptance or discovery weren't really her issues, she/we just couldn't deal with them.

VEGANGELICA

No worries about communicating here in my thread as we're doing, as long as *you're* okay with it. Earlier this year I was posting pictures to show the similarity between Eddie Van Halen's smile and a terrier's happy grin ...so compared to that, your and my discussion about publishing is right on topic!

Besides, I use this thread as a source of inspiration for my writing and not just to post lyrics or poems. Mostly I'm here to have fun. And you know what? You're fun, Slappy!

About self-publishing:

I hear your reasons for going that route, especially since your sales background gives you confidence about using word of computer to spread awareness of your self-published works.

However, when you mentioned the high costs of getting an agent, I wanted to let you know that (I think) a good, reputable agent will not charge you anything and instead will just take a percentage of the proceeds from the sale of a manuscript to a publishing company. So I'm thinking that getting a literary agent shouldn't be expensive to get an agent if or when you seek one.

I *also* just read that poets typically don't go to a literary agent to publish a book of poetry, which I didn't realize or remember. Instead, the typical route for publishing poetry books is to send the manuscript yourself to small presses (after successfully publishing individual poems in literary journals to show the poems have selling power):

You asked if I have had anything published. I have, but not much. While I was in college and soon after, during my biggest writing years, I did get some poetry published in small poetry journals. I also had a poem and short story selected for a writer organization's anthology book, which was a fun process.

After college I had to decide what to do for a career. I loved and had studied both science and arts (I remember loving a class about lyrical poetry). I decided to pursue science (biology) in graduate school and for work, because I love living things and life and wanted to *do* something to learn more about them and not just write about or paint them. Then I was so busy that I simply didn't have time or mental energy to write creatively.

My love of creative writing has been reasserting itself during the last six years, however. (I was inspired by a former teacher to write again.) I'm glad, because writing feels like the return of a beloved childhood friend.

About alcoholism treatment facilities:

I had deleted from my previous post (to make it shorter) the very same information you found out from your friend's mom--you can't force an adult to go to a treatment center unless she is at immediate risk of killing herself or someone else. Even if someone goes to rehab, she or he is probably likely to relapse and need to go back several times and after all that still may not be able to stop drinking. I wanted you to know that, unfortunately, there was probably very little that could be done for your friend.

I once asked a loved one who is alcoholic (but sober for the last 15 years) what could have stopped him from his years of active drinking. He said the answer was deceptively simple: he should have never taken that first drink (back when he was 18). If young people could see their future due to alcohol-consumption...lost jobs, broken families, destroyed friendships, and poor health...maybe fewer would take that first drink.

I *did* have a good day! I hope you did, too. Selling things, maybe. (I hope you aren't having real-life GlenGarry Glen Ross experiences!)

Hey, if your publishing plan works, then you can supplement your piggy-bank assets and we can make our publishing company a true 50:50 enterprise.

* * * * *

Newkie, thank you for your feedback! I'm very glad to learn that you felt those lines matched your experience. I was hoping people would relate.

When you write that the person with a personality or mood disorder can really seem to want to destroy you, that reminds me chillingly of my memories.

Thank you for sharing.

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slappyjenkins

Vegangelica, I have been pouring over your thread here. Gonna take a while! I knew that you were intellectual, just not to what degree!

It's interesting that some of your last posts (poetry and songs) here have been about breakups and making it on your own and loving someone that is destined never to be or never to last.

I trust your opinion explicitly so would you critique this poem for me? I also left this in Kelli's introduction thread to see if she would critique it.

This poem is the spontaneous production of realizing that the girl I was seeing was simply someone that I could never be with. The relationship had a lot of the elements you speak about(with OCD and high demands and slight things turning into wars). And it was such a powerful environment that I found myself in that this poem forced its way out. It really is one of those things that came streaming out of me all in one line, one sitting and birthed itself on the paper. We broke up the next week.

---
paths that never meet

Winding winding winding
at times so close
but destined never to meet

There is a path made for you
And one made for me

Around and over and back and still
winding through the trees
and winding through the hills

Two seperate lives
going their seperate ways

Sharing only memories
If only for today

I think our paths meet
on the road up ahead
But they are once again
diverging instead

Maybe this is all we'll ever be
two seperate paths
that never quite meet
----
edit: this had a powerful effect on her because we were TOGETHER when I wrote this and I showed it to her and I think it was the clearest indication that our relationship simply was not what we thought it was, it wasn't even a lie, it simply was nothing, two seperate people with problems that would have never gotten it together....tragic huh....

Anyway my friend, you keep your head up always. You have impressed me greatly just from your thoughtful responses and your kind soul.

slappyjenkins

Oh my gosh Vegan you've inspired me to post some of my poetry on here. I don't know how you do it! It's scary to me! I'm worried someone is going to say man are you stupid or what? I have problems with spelling and anglish in general anyway. I hate grammar.

I've been looking through this massive thread at your work. You stay busy don't you????