Thick McRunfast

Sly is what he is, and he knows what he is. I think he wants to live in his van and do drugs till he dies and thats fine with me. He did more for music than most ever will and is one of my biggest inspirations.

Soulflower

Michael Jackson tried returning Sly Stone's music to him before he died. I think Little Richards music was in that Sony ATV catalogue along with other artists music and Michael returned Little Richards music to him. I am not sure if Sly has reached out to the MJ Estate but there is no doubt in my mind that if Sly really wanted his music all these years Michael would have returned his music since he has done it in the past.


We already know that Sly has had substance abuse issues for years but another big portion of why things turned out badly for Sly is because his record label/manager screwed him over. Here is a link to an article that discusses that Sly was in the workings of suing his manager for tricking him into a contract. Now I do not know how true this is but alot of black artists from his era are now broke, poor and living on the streets because of how their labels treated them.

Funk Legend Sly Stone Homeless and Living in a Van - The Hollywood Reporter

Gavin B.

I've never heard that Michael Jackson attempted to return any publishing rights to Sly Stone. Jackson didn't need Sly's consent to return the publishing rights... all he needed to do was establish a trust fund in the name of Sylvester Stewart (Sly's real name) and relinquish his claim to Sly's songs and restore publishing rights to him.

Sly's catalog is fallen under the control of Sony International who agreed to form a joint venture with the Jackson estate. Which means Michael Jackson's parents will be the primary beneficiaries but Sony will have firm control of the entire content of the Mijack music publishing empire because Jackson was plagued with debt at the time of his death.

Sony's control of Mijack is bad news for Sly or any other artist who wants to repurchase their publishing rights from the Sony entertainment consortium. Sly's back catalog produces at least 1 million dollars in mechanical publishing revenues and maybe another $500,000 in performance revenues per year.

__________________
There are two types of music: the first type is the blues and the second type is all the other stuff.
Townes Van Zandt

Soulflower

Sony does not have FULL control over the catalogue.
The MJ Estate owns half of it. MJ's parents are not the beneficiaries of that catalogue, the MJ Estate Executives control that catalogue and MJ was in the talks of returning the catalogue to Sly which he had previously did for Little Richards musi. My guess is I think Sly wanted MJ have to h his music because he would make better investments with it but I agree as well that Sly should own his own music.

Gavin B.

The MJ estate executors are two people who have a fiduciary responsibility to protect what's left of the Jackson fortune. Those people are lawyer John Branca and music industry executive John McClain. The Jackson Estate executors are not the beneficiaries of the Jackson fortune.

Jackson's mother and his children are named as the beneficiaries of whatever money is left when his estate finally settles his mountain of debt. There may not be much money left for them but I'm sure Sony has worked out some sort of deal with the Jackson Estate to set up a modest fund to provide for Jackson's children until adulthood and take care of Jackson's mother in old age.

The Jackson estate will ultimately defer Sony on how the musical holdings of Michael Jackson will be disposed of, because Sony is the primary holder of Jackson's $400 million debt note. During the last 10 years of his life Jackson lived by borrowing advances from Sony against his future royalties. It will be decades before Jackson's debt to Sony is settled and Sony may end up selling most of Jackson's song publishing rights to collect on the debt.

The Mijack catalog was the only real asset remaining in the Jackson fortune when he died and the vultures at Sony will extract their pound of flesh by maintaining control of Jackson's catalog. At the time of his death, Jackson had already signed 50% of his rights to the Mijack catalog to Sony to maintain his line of credit with Sony.

If Sly was trusting MJ to make "better investments", then he was a fool. because Jackson was a compulsive spender who burned up a billion dollar fortune instead of making wise investments.

Michael Jackson never restored the music licensing rights to Little Richard. That's an urban legend that got started among Jackson's fans. Here is the current listing on Little Richard's song Tutti Frutti, which shows that Sony/ATV still has control of the licensing rights to the song: BMI | Repertoire Search I looked up a half dozen other Little Richard songs and all of them were under the licensing control of Sony/ATV.

__________________
There are two types of music: the first type is the blues and the second type is all the other stuff.
Townes Van Zandt

Soulflower

Whooaa I think you misread me wrong and as a matter of fact I actually wrote my last response out wrong lol I didnt mean to call the Johns the benefriciaries..


I already know who the John's are land what is divided to Katherine Jackson, children and charities. Joe Jackson is NOT a beneficiary.

I was not talking about MJs entire Estate as a whole I was specifically refering to Michaels SONY/ATV partial ownership that you implied Michaels parents was oddly the benefriciaries of which is not true. Joe Jackson is not even a beneficiary and Katherine is only getting a fixed amount to live off of Katherine is only gettng a fixed amount from the MJ Estate and its arguable if its coming from the profit of that catalogue. The Estate earned over 500 million dollars since Michael has been gone so the money can be coming from other places.


My point was... Michaels parents are not in charge of his Estate or dont have a say in that partnership with Sony. The John's are just following what Michael had outlined in the will for how he wanted his money to be divided for his mother, children and charities when he passed. Your post made it seem as though his parents get a vast portion of the catalogue and thats not true.

Joe Jackson doesnt get a dime from the MJ Estate.


Are you sure that is Michaels ownership of the SONY/ATV catalogue and not Sony's? Michael did not own ALL of Little Richard's songs but the songs that he did own he did return to him before he died.

On the other things, I have to respond at a descent time, its late lol

Gavin B.

I'm not going to chase tails with you on this subject anymore. I never claimed Joe Jackson was a beneficiary of the Jackson Estate because he wasn't.

I checked a Little Richard's best known songs in the BMI index and all of them were owned by the Sony/ATV which is the musical consortium that owns the Michael Jackson songs. Here are the songs I checked:

Tutti Frutti
Long Tall Sally
Lucille
Slippin and Sliding
Jenny, Jenny
Keep on Knocking
All Night Long
Good Golly Miss Molly

All of those songs are owned by the Jackson Estate entity, Sony/ATV and are the most valuable assets in the Little Richard (Richard Penniman) catalog. The fact that those songs remain in the Sony/ATV catalog is convincing proof that Michael Jackson never returned Little Richard's most valuable songs to him.

Check it out for yourself...Here's a link to the entire Richard Penniman BMI song catalog: BMI | Repertoire Search

According to BMI Little Richard has written a total of 144 songs in his musical career and his lesser known titles (a fair amount of gospel music) are owned by small publishing houses who make bulk purchases of obscure titles with the hope of that a few of the songs will have licensing value in the future.

I think somebody is confused about the nature of royalty payments. In 1984 Little Richard brought a lawsuit against his former publisher Venice Music and his former record label Specialty Records and ATV for failure to pay royalties between 1959 and 1979 (a period of time prior to the Jackson purchase of the Little Richard catalog in 1980). Those companies who own licensing rights to the music are still required to pay royalties to the song composer (usually about 15%). For that 20 year period Little Richard didn't receive a single royalty payment from his publishers. It's a fair amount of money because artists like the Beatles and Mitch Ryder had big hits with covers of Little Richard songs. Little Richard settled in 1986 for an undisclosed amount of money.

I'm not sure how this story of Michael Jackson restoring the licensing rights to Little Richard got started, but there isn't a single music trade announcement of the story. Perhaps Jackson himself made a false or uniformed claim to have done so. The only place I heard this story was among the numerous Jackson fan blogs but none of these blogs had a link to a news story about it. The proof is in the BMI publishing database and I've provided you with the link to it. I have no idea of why you want to promote this ludicrous myth about Michael Jackson's charity toward Little Richard.

When Jackson purchased the Little Richard songs he began paying out royalties to Little Richard, but he never gave away the physical licensing rights to Little Richard. Jackson simply did what any reputable music publishers should do: pay out royalties to the song composer.

__________________
There are two types of music: the first type is the blues and the second type is all the other stuff.
Townes Van Zandt

Soulflower

You did but maybe you did not realize it. Here this is what you said:

This means you are referring to Katherine as well as JOE Jackson as the beneficiaries

When Michael purchased the catalogue containing LR's songs, he gave them back to him as a gift because MJ knew LR had been cheated out of his royalties all throughout his career. He was actually advised by his mother to return the songs back to him and I believe this was done before the merge with Sony in 1995.

This new updated list of music is arguable because its possible Sony already owned these songs. Little Richard has openly commented on Michael returning his music to him and is a big fan of Michael. He has spoken highly of Michael for years and even wanted him to portray him in his biopic.

Sly Stone is also a fan of Michael. So there is no beef or animosity between these singers. Michael respected them which is why he offered to return the songs back to Sly and returned Little Richard songs to him. Currently, I cant tell you if Little Richard still owns his songs or not but I know Michael did return them to him. Its very possible Little Richard sold his songs to Sony similiar to Sly for money. Sony/ATV is the biggest music publishing company in America so its perfectly possible he did.




Also, Sony did not gain full control. Michael sold them a HALF stake for some astronomical sum--larger than what he originally paid for it, and STILL retained half ownership and control. So all this Sony has full control is bs. Michael is a 50% part owner of the company.

He was a stellar businmess man if you ask me.






This is false.

Michael purchased the ATV music publishing company in 1985.

Which is why Michael returned his music back to him because he saw how he was screwed over.

You can youtube the many videos Little Richard speaks positively about Michael Jackson almost like a stan. But if you really think this thin "objectively" if those reports were not true dont you think Little Richard would publicly bash the reports?

Little Richard is VERY outspoken and he is very outspoken when it comes to his music and how he has been treated.

There are thousands reports on this story...


Not necessarily because there were songs Michael didnt own before the merge and even after he passed (that he now does because of his 50% ownership with Sony).


I am not promoting a myth and I dont view this as "charity". Michael and Little Richard were really good friends (even when he did own his songs)

You do realize when MJ brought that catalogue from Mcartney those LR songs were also already in the catalogue?? That is why I didnt understand his complaining about MJ buying his music when he has been screwing over black artists for years. He was the one that told Michael about the company...



Thats beside the point,he eventually returned his music to him

Gavin B.

Sheesh... give it up, pal.

__________________
There are two types of music: the first type is the blues and the second type is all the other stuff.
Townes Van Zandt

Soulflower

^ lol... we are not arguing hun, this is just a regular discussion. I just wanted to clarify some misconceptions you had