i'm not sure that nelson can step in and be the primary distributor that turkoglu was.
ummm who says lebron is staying with the cavs? also, why the hell did the magic feel the need to trade Courtney Lee. they are gonna regret that one...
because Kobe's window is closing. as of now, Artest is a big upgrade at that spot. I see Kobe at this level(aka title contention) for the next 2 or 3 years.

Kobe's like MJ; he's driven.

There's no reason to bet against him even 5 years from now if Phil Jackson's still there, but that's a lot of road trips and a lot of meditating for the Zen Master.

As for now, I think Artest will be a slight upgrade, but he can be a bigtime chuck, even more than Kobe if you know what I mean. Can't you just see him putting up airball 3's in the 4th quarter, and Kobe grilling his a$$. I hope his ego stays in check and can handle that.

so is kevin garnett. your body starts to break down after a period of time.
No chance Jackson is there in 5 years.
i agree his shot selection can be terrible. but he won't be allowed to dominate the ball with kobe...

Artest will probably be a good addition to the Lakers, especially if they lose Odom (looking more likely), but I will not abandon the hope that he causes them to implode and fall short of a repeat. I simply will not!

no chance. and i would bet the lakers retain odom.

Do you guys remember the lakers vs the kings a few years ago. that was fun, but i wish the kings had won, but they fouled like mad.

ok time for this thread to be resurrected. new season. lets chat.

Celtics look WAY stronger so far than I thought they would.

Lets talk about Phoenix, they are a scoring machine. If they can patch up some holes on D, especially in the paint, I think they could be a major force this year.

The Celtics are too old. Garnett looks really sluggish from what I have seen. He can't jump anymore. I bet one of their key players goes down with an injury, killing their title hopes. If by some reason they keep it together they are neck and neck with Orlando in my opinion.


Finals Prediction:

Lakers vs Magic

Going to be another long season in NOLA. CP will put up MVP numbers, while the bench gives every game away. Borderline playoff team.

how long is CP3 under contract?

Signed through 2012, with a player option for the 2012-13 season. Not even the team's highest paid player, that guy (Peja) was coming off the bench. Posey is making $6M and averaging 3.3 ppg. These are not real weapons for the NBA's best player to work with.

Watching them play Phoenix right now is straight up embarrassing. Reminds me of the 58 point loss against the Nuggets in the playoffs. No heart. No defense. Look at the NBA elite- they all have a World class player similar in status to Paul, but they also have a SUPPORTING CAST!!1!...

I can't wait for Peja to leave- his defense is a liability, and even when he's "on" his offense barely makes up for it. We need a defender- and a 20 ppg sniper to take the scoring pressure off Paul, and let him get back to distributing (rather than carrying the weight of NOLA on his shoulders). Peja and Posey off the books frees up $20M+ to accomplish this.

...and, in the wake of that rant, Byron Scott is fired. Well, they needed a scapegoat for the preseason struggles and poor start, but this isn't a real solution. We're only two years removed from the guy taking this team to 2nd in the conference, and nearly to the conference finals (up 3 games to 2 on San Antonio), with almost no talent on the roster.

Ditch the veterans, let's get some new blood (and, no, Julian Wright does not look like the new blood we need up till now).

good group of games today... nice LBJ v Dwade battle and the Lakers beat up on the Suns.

Loving the Nuggets rolling into LA without 'Melo and still posting season points on the Lakers. 9 3s for Chauncey?! He couldn't miss but I've said for a while that the Lakers perimeter defence is their weakness this season, they were allowing JR Smith and K-Mart good looks from deep as well, Fisher is a weak link now and even sat for most of this one.

I'm rooting for the Nuggets this season only because I picked them at the start and had a few quid on them at 14/1 so that was pretty sweet! The Cavs look the most complete team in the league for me though. Cavs-Nuggets Finals, Cavs in 6.

Lol. The Nuggets have no shot, people were saying the same thing about the Lakers last year...In the end they're just too talented.

its gonna be Cavs Lakers. I would pick the Lakers. but LBJ is a wildcard.

Only way Cavs beat the Lakers is 4 superhuman performances by LBJ that aren't countered by the same from Kobe (Hell, or Bynum. Remember those 40-20 games right before he was hurt?). I know it's possible but with the Lakers all around length and Ron Artest limiting him as much as anyone could (Which ain't much) I don't see it happening.

The Cavs all-round defence is better than the Lakers for me. And they have marginally more depth. The Lakers are pretty much unstoppable inside and you have to hand it to them for their ability to tip teams to death this season - so many 2nd opportunities around the rim. Gasol and Odom basically. Bynum is overrated for me. Offensively he's started to impress me but Nene had his number at the other end on Friday. I still think it's an ask for the Nuggets (or anyone) to get past the Lakers but I definitely think a good jump shooting team has a chance against them, which is why I'm still backing the Nuggets.

Cavs are deeper than the Lakers?
I don't think so.

Comfortably IMHO. Let's look at the Lakers v Cavs benches then and square off the positions, here's my thoughts.

PG Farmar (Lakers) v Gibson & West (Cavs)
Easy win for the Cavs. Farmar is streaky, Gibson shoots the 3 great and West is underrated generally. No other team in the league has such strength at PG as the Cavs (save maybe the Blazers), whereas it's unquestionably the Lakers weak spot.

SG Vujacic & Brown (Lakers) v Green (Cavs)
Lakers win but only by default really. Vujacic is in terrible form, Brown has done very well in spurts. Can't say I've seen much of Green.

SF Walton & Morrison (Lakers) v Moon & Jackson (Cavs)
Cavs purely on the basis of Moon, the only notable player of that bunch.

PF Odom & Powell (Lakers) v Varejao, Williams & Powe (Cavs)
Lakers by a whisker as Odom is fabulous offensively and a starter at almost any other team. Varejao is among the league's best defenders though and with Powe to come back you could make a case that they win on combined merit.

C Mbenga & Gaffney (Lakers) v Ilgauskas (Cavs)
Cavs hands down.

Here's how I score it

PG Farmar and Fisher v Gibson, West, Williams
I agree that Cavs take this, but dont sleep on Fish. Farmar is also developing into a great player.

SG Vujacic & Kobe v Parker, Green
Lakers win this easily

SF Walton & Morrison v Lebron, Moon
I'm dissapointed in Morrison as a pro. I thought he had a good story. Cavs dominate this pos.

PF
Artest, Odom, Gaffney v Williams, Powe, Verijao
Lakers take this easily. LA is just too big at this position not to dominate, and they D up a lot better.

C
Bynum, Mbenga, Gasol v Shaq, Ilgauskas
Lakers are better here too. Gasol is better than Il, and I'd take Bynum over an aged Shaq any day.

I agree the Lakers starting 5 is better than the Cavs. It's better than any in the league, without a doubt. But we were talking purely about depth so I think you're muddying the waters a bit there by including the big guns on both teams.

As a straight match-up, I like the Lakers offence better, also their inside defence. But the Cavs defend the perimeter better and have more depth. Also whereas the Cavs have improved slightly on last season (with essentially the same team), for the Lakers Artest has been a good addition but Fisher looks half a yard slower at both ends of the court so I put the Lakers back a tiny notch on last year.

So it's very close. But I take the Cavs....just.

Legit points. I was including the starters because I consider them part of the depth.
I look at it like this, Lakers sans Kobe beats Cavs sans lebron 4 times out of five. But I think you're right that bench vs bench Cavs win.

LMAO @ this. Hornets anyone? The Cavs don't really have a PG at all, they have combo guards. Lebron and Kobe have the ball so much that this matters less than on most teams.

i keep hearing about fisher. he has been like the since he came back to the lakers at least. he is still solid.

Hornets? Beyond Paul they've Darren Collison and Jason Hart, ie nothing. I'm talking specifically about the PG group, where Williams, Gibson and West is terrific depth, however you look at it and whether you want to call them "shoot first" (Williams, Gibson) or "drive first" (West) point guards or whatever. They still play the 1, which was my point. I agree that none are a traditional ball distributor like Rondo or Nash but that wasn't my point.

Fisher was integral to the Lakers in their runner-up season of '08 but had a poor regular season last year before stepping up in the play-offs. I see a general downward slide with him at both ends of the floor, I just think time has caught up with him.

i think of point guards as distributors. name any team with two PGs better than Paul and Collison. i dont consider gibson, williams, or west true PG's.

Suns with Nash and Dragic maybe. But if you're taking that purist outlook then there are actually very few true distributing PGs in the league these days when you think about it - much less than 10/15 years ago. Look at Derrick Rose - technically a PG but you rarely see him make a pass. It seems to be a bit of a dying art, which is a shame as I like a PG to play that way too, Rajon Rondo being my favourite player in the league right now (hence the av).

Point is though that a team can be successful without a pass-first PG. In the last few years we've seen Parker at the Spurs (more of a slasher/dish-out PG) and Fisher last year (shoot first PG) win rings as starting 1s. I was just making the point that in terms of pure talent alone the Cavs have great depth at the position.

Rose doesn't pass because no one on the Bulls can do ****.
Rose
Jennings
Parker
Nash
Paul
Davis
Kidd
Brooks
Billups
Westbrook
Williams
Rondo
Duhon
Conley
Nelson
Jack or Calderon
John Wall next year.

What's the purpose of that list of PGs, Proggyman? Are you saying they're all traditional ball distributors because I'd question a few, if so.

Yeh, pretty much everyone on the list besides Parker I would consider a traditional 1.

Anyone been watching the finals?
I dont follow Bball too much, but my good buddy is a Laker fan, and I watch alot of games at his house and they have grown on me a bit. Likewise, I naturally cannot stand any Boston sports teams, so it works out well. I feel game 2 had alot of poor calls at the end for LA, which had poor results.

i think the game overall was called poorly. i don't like how they are rotating in new refs for each game as g2 had all different as opposed to g1. and i hate it how the lakers' guards off the bench rarely ever get our bigs involved.

No boston team huh?

Well i've got sour news for you....

I caught most of that game last night. Ray Allen might count as a flammable liquid in 32 states after last night.

I hate to complain about the officials but David...I doubt Ray Allen does that again, I also don't think Rondo consistently takes over at the end of games like that or that the Celtics contain Kobe the that extent again. So we'll just have to see. Boston is awful at home.

Ray Allen is such a talented shooter, he could easily mount a similar performance by the end of the series.

Way I see it, Boston got 1 in LA, the "hardest" place to play and the place that seems to always see the worst officiating in sports. All Boston has to do is win out at home, which isn't necessarily easy, but it lightens the load a bit.

I hate to see LA win again, but they are the more talented team. Boston has them in the chemistry department, but LA is bigger, more experienced, and faster. But Boston's ability to rotate bench players and play defense has given them enough to have a shot at winning the thing.

I pick Boston in 7.

L.A. went 5/23 from 3, Boston was 11/16. L.A. still controlled the paint, with 14 blocks to Boston's 3, the rebounding difference was a product of Bynum and Odom's foul trouble and Rondo leading his team in rebounding. If the 3's don't fall at the rate they did last night then Boston will have to hope the Lakers stay saddled with the ridiculous amount of foul trouble they had. I would remind you that Boston is terrible at home, I'd expect the Lakers to grab at least a game and have a 50/50 shot at grabbing two.

They might have been all season, but the Lakers are amazing at home and they got clobbers in the second half of that game. What you saw in Game 2 was a fire under the ass.

The Celtics now have the momentum.

Yeah he was hot, too bad it was short lived. Boston might have a chance if everyone decides to show up.