The American Football Thread

[djchameleon]

Originally Posted by butthead aka 216

youve said similar things in the past. i wonder where you draw the line on anything. what if someone has a mental breakdown because of a curse word? or because of a middle finger??

I shouldn't even response to this because you obviously know the difference between a simple curse word and a middle finger vs. being harassed constantly in numerous different ways.

Do you need me to look up the word bullying for you and copy/paste the definition?

[Forward To Death]

Originally Posted by butthead aka 216

what lol of course it plays into this. dafuq you talkin bout. martin is/was soft, hes always been that way compared to other nfl players cause that's ust his personality. from everything ive read or seen, all the dolphins support incognito. tannehill even said incognito and martin were like best friends. i think the voicemail and stuff might be taken out of context big time. i think the only thing incognito did wrong was probably the 15K for the vegas trip thing. most of it just sounds overblown and a witchhunt

your last paragraph and part I bolded....dude, that's literally his job. his job is to manipulate psyche's to make ppl the best they can be. your suggestion is completely absurd in every way. can already tell you're one of the dodos who prob wanted paterno burned at the stake too

It doesn't matter who the players support, it's a legal matter now. The fact that it's part of his personality just supports my argument better that he should've just been left alone in the first place and none of this would have happened. He isn't soft, are you kidding me? Mental/verbal abuse isn't part of football. What's your point, that he got pissed off because he was called a ****** and threatened, so he's a soft football player? Like I said, it undermines the fact that he plays in the NFL. Try again.

It's his job to manipulate Martin's psyche? Is he a psychologist? Here I thought it was the coaches job to just keep the locker room together and to call a few plays. I didn't know they were required to know of how certain personalities would react to certain situations, but then again I don't think Phillbin could have either. His plan to get Martin out of his shell has completely backfired, so there goes that theory.

What's your opinion on Paterno? Not that it has anything to do with this.

[djchameleon]

I know the culture. Same **** happens in the military. The main issue with this story that makes it different is that the dude getting pranked/hazed couldn't handle it and needed to check himself into a ward. When someone gets mentally scarred from it. It is too far.

[p-bo]

I've been a Penn St fan since 1985 and my opinion on Paterno is this: At BEST he stood around and did nothing. He's not the police. He's not an investigator. But he was aware of what happened, and the predator was still a huge presence on campus after that. Don't you thing, as Paterno, that 5 days later, or 5 months later, or 5 years later, when you still see that piece of **** walking around campus, that you might ask why? Maybe inquire. Maybe take action, seeing how you're the single most powerful person within a 200 mile radius? I've lost all respect for Paterno, most of my love for that school, and most of my faith in people. The only people, besides the victims, I have any sympathy for are the current players.

[butthead aka 216]

Originally Posted by p-bo

I've been a Penn St fan since 1985 and my opinion on Paterno is this: At BEST he stood around and did nothing. He's not the police. He's not an investigator. But he was aware of what happened, and the predator was still a huge presence on campus after that. Don't you thing, as Paterno, that 5 days later, or 5 months later, or 5 years later, when you still see that piece of **** walking around campus, that you might ask why? Maybe inquire. Maybe take action, seeing how you're the single most powerful person within a 200 mile radius? I've lost all respect for Paterno, most of my love for that school, and most of my faith in people. The only people, besides the victims, I have any sympathy for are the current players.

it just makes no sense to me that everyone was quick to demonize paterno. theres a lot of unknowns. like what did he know, did he cover it up, etc. and if any coach in the history or sports has earned the right to benefit of the doubt, its joe pa. and absolutely nobody gave him any benefit of the doubt which just makes no sense to me. i think the media and public at large just wanted to tear down an icon. i still love psu football and always will love that community but my general thoughts on the school have turned sour and bitter.

i feel like the board of trustee at psu have no backbone and didnt stand behind the man who built the program and honestly the school itself. in short, joepa gave too much and did too much for everyone in the school and when push came to shove the ppl who shoulda had his back betrayed him





back on topic, incognito either did, or is goin to, release the hundreds of texts between him and martin. the truth is lookin more and more like i imagined it. martin - mental issues, soft. incognito - easy scapegoat for the media to claw into. mob mentality ensues.

[Forward To Death]

Anyways, I don't really care that much about this issue but it's interesting.

I think Incognito thought that he was being friendly, but didn't get that when Martin was telling him to shut the **** up, he really wanted him to shut the **** up and back off. I know guys like that, they're psychopaths who don't understand the difference between right and wrong and usually have no regard for the personal space of others. He was probably intruding, and Martin felt suffocated and eventually just snapped.

If Martin was soft, he wouldn't have been going back and forth with him for this long, but almost everyone has a limit. Some of the most chilled out dudes I know have limits, you pester them with BS for so long they're going to flip their ****. Calling him soft because he reacted to repeated teasing, which Incognito's teammates say he's prone to doing, is absolutely ridiculous.

He should definitely have told him to knock the **** off, but that usually doesn't work for someone like a Richie Incognito. If he couldn't take the hint and **** off, what makes me think he would respond positively to reason? Who's to say he didn't reason with him, and he continued to **** with him? You don't know all of the facts yet. Believe me, I've thought about the context plenty, this is my own opinion, not ESPN's, not NFL.com's. I've thought about maybe Martin was just taking it too seriously, but that ignores a lot of the other facts. I don't think one incident of a friend jokingly threatening to kill you causes a mental breakdown, and I'd be willing to bet if you sat and thought about it for a few minutes, you'd come to the same conclusion.

[p-bo]

My experiences from suburban high school in New York agree with you. You have kids who get bullied and do their best to avoid those situations. Then you have those who get bullied and come back for more. The crave acceptance and think they will eventually fit in or the bullying will stop. My guess would be Martin is closer to the latter. He wanted to be a part of the locker room and he wanted to be a good sport. He just had enough.

[Forward To Death]

Originally Posted by p-bo

My experiences from suburban high school in New York agree with you. You have kids who get bullied and do their best to avoid those situations. Then you have those who get bullied and come back for more. The crave acceptance and think they will eventually fit in or the bullying will stop. My guess would be Martin is closer to the latter. He wanted to be a part of the locker room and he wanted to be a good sport. He just had enough.

Absolutely.

In a team sport, if you're smart you don't want to clash with your teammates, especially someone like Incognito who obviously has a lot of support in the locker room. Everyone's going to take his side (which is what's happening now) and it's not going to end well for you, especially when you're a rookie/sophomore, he wasn't going to accomplish anything by taking a stand. It's all perception in a clique like that, the ones who are longest in the tooth are the ones who are going to be perceived favorably no matter what the situation. I think the fact that he was being treated like a rookie in his 2nd year is entirely BS; every rookie should go through that process just because it does teach them some respect, and that's just the way things work in society, you work your way up. They didn't let him graduate from that though, they treated him like he was a piece of **** and they made sport of teasing him in the locker room. Save it for the rookies, and let the sophomores get in on some it, otherwise their progress as a teammate is just going to stagnate, and the entire purpose of "hazing" the rookie is defeated.

[butthead aka 216]

manipulatin feelin and personality is part of coachin. their job is to get the best out of their players. do you really think philbin just wanted to fukc with martin? of course not, he was tryin to get him to work out at voluntary team workouts and get in gear so he could be the best he could be.

incognito and martin were friends. martins texts show that. other dolphins have said that. the quarterback said that richie was martins best friend on the team. like incognito said, thats how they communicate and talk with each other. its locker room talk and it stays in the locker room. thousands upon thousands of players have been in those locker room conversations. its not a place for someone easily offended.

from what im gatherin its not even so much about rookie hazin per se, more just like the treatment in general. but these are grown men with grown men problems. if ya got a problem, say somethin about it instead of freakin out. maybe martin didnt know how to handle it. he comes from a background that other nfl players probably see as soft and im sure his stanford locker room was a little different than miamis. i dont think we know if he went to incognito but i didnt hear that he did. i also dont think he filed charges or against who he would be filing them against anyways. its a problem martin has, unfortunately incognito is an easy scapegoat due to his history of bein a douche. i just think the whole thing should been kept in-house

and the miami players are takin incognitos side because they are bein honest about it. havent heard a single guy say he was steppin over the line or they saw any signs of a freak out which leads me to believe its more martins emotional or mental problems than anythin else. the miami players have no reason to defend incognito, hes not ever goin to play for them again so theres no incentive for them to protect him or whatever. if anythin, theres more incentive and motivation behind backin martin - somethin nobody has done.


about joepa, he didnt look the other way and theres no reason for anyone in this world to think that had he known all of what was goin on that he would have willingly let it all happen. again, benefit of the doubt, he never gets it. if he wanted to cover it up or whatever why would he immediately tell his superiors what he was told by mcqueary?? that whole scandal makes me sick on multiple fronts

[Forward To Death]

Originally Posted by butthead aka 216

manipulatin feelin and personality is part of coachin. their job is to get the best out of their players. do you really think philbin just wanted to fukc with martin? of course not, he was tryin to get him to work out at voluntary team workouts and get in gear so he could be the best he could be.

Does intent really matter in this situation? I don't care what his intent was, Martin was treated like ****, and Phillbin not only looked the other way, he orchestrated the whole thing. He TOLD Incognito to get him out of his shell, this is documented by players who are now taking Richie's side.

incognito and martin were friends. martins texts show that. other dolphins have said that. the quarterback said that richie was martins best friend on the team. like incognito said, thats how they communicate and talk with each other. its locker room talk and it stays in the locker room. thousands upon thousands of players have been in those locker room conversations. its not a place for someone easily offended.

What do the texts show? Does Martin say "Hey Richie, I just wanted to tell you you're my best friend!!"? D'aaawww, that's sweet, but no they don't.

I don't think you understand it one bit. It's not a case of someone being "offended", it's a case of someone feeling like they were treated like they were less than human. If that's all it was, him taking offense to what Incognito was saying, then why is he suffering mentally? You still can't answer that.

from what im gatherin its not even so much about rookie hazin per se, more just like the treatment in general. but these are grown men with grown men problems. if ya got a problem, say somethin about it instead of freakin out. maybe martin didnt know how to handle it. he comes from a background that other nfl players probably see as soft and im sure his stanford locker room was a little different than miamis. i dont think we know if he went to incognito but i didnt hear that he did. i also dont think he filed charges or against who he would be filing them against anyways. its a problem martin has, unfortunately incognito is an easy scapegoat due to his history of bein a douche. i just think the whole thing should been kept in-house

It obviously isn't Martin's problem if Incognito's a psychopath, is it? These are real people with personalities, and to call one of them soft because he was harassed on a daily basis and felt uncomfortable taking a stand is absolutely ridiculous. It's all a bunch of macho jock bull**** to be honest.