The Official World Cup 2010 Thread

[jackhammer]

I just can't bloody wait after the debacle of the Euros. It's been 4 long long years!

[Sneer]

Originally Posted by Unknown Soldier

When France won the WC in 1998 their manager stated that to win a world cup a team has to have at least 5 or 6 world class players in their squad (something I agree with) England may have these, in the positions that you`ve referenced above, but its the rest of the squad that is the problem, when France won in 1998, the rest of the players were certainly better than the likes of Upson, Defoe, Crouch, Brown, Green etc. Players who might be decent at club level but don`t cut it at international level.

Brown i agree with. But Crouch and Defoe? Their goals to game ratios at international level are really decent. Crouch in particular has like a goal every other game. And Upson is a really good player who would walk into many international starting 11s. We also have Walcott, Wright-Phillips and Lennon who, although not totally consistent, have that ability to turn a game on it's head. Barry and Johnson are also class, not quite world class, but class.

And anyway, i dont think we will win it, as i said, i think semis.

[Unknown Soldier]

Originally Posted by Stu

Brown i agree with. But Crouch and Defoe? Their goals to game ratios at international level are really decent. Crouch in particular has like a goal every other game. And Upson is a really good player who would walk into many international starting 11s. We also have Walcott, Wright-Phillips and Lennon who, although not totally consistent, have that ability to turn a game on it's head. Barry and Johnson are also class, not quite world class, but class.

And anyway, i dont think we will win it, as i said, i think semis.

Spain:Torres and Villa
Brazil: Luis Fabiano and Pato (are one the world class combos they can have)
Argentina: Aguero and Messi (Again another poss combo)

Defoe and Crouch just can`t compare to these above players. Upson walking into a Brazilian or Spanish starting 11! You`ve certainly got a sense of humour He`d probably be first choice for Slovakia though!

[Urban Hat€monger ?]

To be fair Walcott is injury prone, Wright Phillips has done nothing at international level & Lennon blows hot & cold and is very much a confidence player, Crouch has never really done anything against any significant team & Upson doesn't really have a lot of international experience. Barry is solid if unspectacular.

I still think that after England's starting 11 they're pretty weak.

I do think people talk up the South American teams far too much, Rooney is just a good a player as Messi.

[Sneer]

Originally Posted by Unknown Soldier

Spain:Torres and Villa
Brazil: Luis Fabiano and Pato (are one the world class combos they can have)
Argentina: Aguero and Messi (Again another poss combo)

Defoe and Crouch just can`t compare to these above players. Upson walking into a Brazilian or Spanish starting 11! You`ve certainly got a sense of humour He`d probably be first choice for Slovakia though!

You're completely overlooking what im saying. All the players you reference are world class, i didnt say Crouch and Defoe are world class, i said they're decent international players.

And i said Upson would walk into MANY international sides, and to be honest i dont think he's any worse than Arbeol, who is one of Spains first choice centre backs. Same applies to Thiago Silva/cris of Brazil and Demichelis/Pareja of Argentina. They're first choices for their countries and DO NOT tell me they're world class. Upson i think is as good as them and he isnt even first choice for England.

[Unknown Soldier]

Originally Posted by Stu

You're completely overlooking what im saying. All the players you reference are world class, i didnt say Crouch and Defoe are world class, i said they're decent international players.

And i said Upson would walk into Many international sides, and to be honest i dont think he's any worse than Arbeol, who is one of Spains first choice centre backs. Same applies to Thiago Silva/cris of Brazil and Demichelis/Pareja of Argentina. They're first choices for their countries and DO NOT tell me they're world class. Upson i thin is as good as them and he isnt even first choice for England.

Arbeloa is more of a full back or are you referring to Albiol? I think all the CB`s that you have listed, are better than Upson and also play in the best sides in their repective leagues, with the exception of Pareja.

[Unknown Soldier]

Originally Posted by Urban Hatemonger

To be fair Walcott is injury prone, Wright Phillips has done nothing at international level & Lennon blows hot & cold and is very much a confidence player, Crouch has never really done anything against any significant team & Upson doesn't really have a lot of international experience. Barry is solid if unspectacular.

I still think that after England's starting 11 they're pretty weak.

I do think people talk up the South American teams far too much, Rooney is just a good a player as Messi.

Its because South America produces players like Messi almost non-stop, most don`t achieve Messi`s international fame because of bad transfers to the wrong clubs, not being able to adapt to the european game, injuries (watch Brazilian league football and you`ll see what I mean) or just transferring to inferior leagues for the money where they don`t develop any further, its almost a non stop gravy train. So if one highly talented Maradona style player falls by the wayside, there is always another one to replace him.

Whereas with Rooney, he`s a talent that comes around in northern european football once in a blue moon, England may well have to wait another decade or more to get another Rooney.

[Sneer]

Originally Posted by Unknown Soldier

Arbeloa is more of a full back or are you referring to Albiol? I think all the CB`s that you have listed, are better than Upson and also play in the best sides in their repective leagues, with the exception of Pareja.

Albiol, you're right. Still, he's no better than Upson and Madrid spent well over the odds on him. Great, Demichelis and Cris are first choice for the best teams in the French and German leagues. Both of which are piss poor outside of the top 1 or 2 clubs. They are no better than Upson in my opinion, who plays and is seen as one of the best of his position in arguably the best league in the world.

Anyway, this argument over one player is pointless. I cant see past Spain and Brazil winning it to be honest. I hope they do too, they play the best football and it'd be one hell of a final.

[Urban Hat€monger ?]

Originally Posted by Unknown Soldier

Its because South America produces players like Messi almost non-stop, most don`t achieve Messi`s international fame because of bad transfers to the wrong clubs, not being able to adapt to the european game, injuries (watch Brazilian league football and you`ll see what I mean) or just transferring to inferior leagues for the money where they don`t develop any further, its almost a non stop gravy train. So if one highly talented Maradona style player falls by the wayside, there is always another one to replace him.

Whereas with Rooney, he`s a talent that comes around in northern european football once in a blue moon, England may well have to wait another decade or more to get another Rooney.

England have had Rooney, Gerrard & Lampard in the running for world & european player of the year in the past few seasons. Joe Cole is just as skilful as any Brazilian player and was by far & away England's best player at the last world cup. And a fully fit goal poacher like Michael Owen would walk into any international team.

This is exactly the kind of thing I mean when i say people look at south american teams with far too much reverence. Hell Diego Maradona's favourite player is warming benches at Manchester City right now.

[Unknown Soldier]

Originally Posted by Stu

Albiol, you're right. Still, he's no better than Upson and Madrid spent well over the odds on him. Great, Demichelis and Cris are first choice for the best teams in the French and German leagues. Both of which are piss poor outside of the top 1 or 2 clubs. They are no better than Upson in my opinion, who plays and is seen as one of the best of his position in arguably the best league in the world.

Anyway, this argument over one player is pointless. I cant see past Spain and Brazil winning it to be honest. I hope they do too, they play the best football and it'd be one hell of a final.

I certainly agree with you, about not arguing over Upson

The thing with the German and the French leagues is that they are decent leagues, but just don`t have the money to bring the players that the Premiership, La Liga or Serie A can (despite the fact that Serie A is nowhere near as strong as it was) With the exception of both Lyon and Bayern Munich, the differences between the rest of the teams are not so great. Also the French league is one of the great breeding grounds for footballers, as the amount of African players for example that play there is incredible, its the main shopping league for the English, Spanish and Italian clubs. Traditionally, the German league tends to bring in a lot of eastern european talent, which again attracts the big clubs in Europe.