GuitarBizarre

Thats...an unbelievably arbitrary and personal distinction. You can't seriously be suggesting that your personal bias is a valid rationale for describing things as sport?

Regardless, competitive gaming does carry similar random elements and risks of injury. IMMvP is currently competing in the GSL with wrist injuries. BoxeR has had to take a sabbatical and forfeit his Code A matches because of a growing pain in his shoulder. Flash, the famous Broodwar progamer has had similar wrist issues and is still suffering the after effects.

Just because the game is immutable doesn't mean there is no such element, and even if it did, it seems completely ridiculous to me that you're trying to define sports in a way that literally has nothing to do with what makes a sport a sport.

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Guybrush

A character in a video game generally does nothing if there's no player to tell it what to do. The characters in StarCraft are the units by which the game is won. It's comparable to a pool cue, discus, pole for pole vaulting or a golf club. These things do nothing without a player, but they are things you use to win the game, just like video game characters like StarCraft units.

You're comparing the video game character to the athlete which I think is wrong.

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Something Completely Different

Urban Hat€monger ?

No i'm not, I'm simply suggesting that until video games focus on all the attributes of the person playing them I don't consider them a sport.

If you want to play a game that uses physical prowess in the gameplay of the game I don't see why it's so unreasonable to expect the player to have it too. That seems perfectly reasonable to me.

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GuitarBizarre

You're missing the point. This is just your personal preference on what sports you want to watch. What you're saying has sweet fanny adams to do with whether something is a sport or not. I don't see how you can logically apply anything you're saying in a way that becomes a functional method to say "This is a sport, this is not a sport".

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Urban Hat€monger ?

It's got absolutely sod all to do with what sports I choose to watch.

You can choose to dismiss my point if you wish, all I'm saying is I think a sport should focus on the attributes of the person playing it not the attributes that a computer chooses to give that person.

e sports don't fit that criteria as far as I'm concerned ... Yet.

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GuitarBizarre

What you're talking about is "Here is the arbitrary distinction I have made on what I choose to call a sport."

What I am saying is "On what grounds have you made that distinction? You seem to have pulled this bizarre method of defining sports completely out of your backside, so its a way of defining sports that is applicable to you, and only you, and that just isn't good enough for me to consider it a point or an argument."

If we were going to make people's gut feelings, devoid of rationale, admissable as a definition of sport, then everyone is right. But you're arguing that for some reason, what you think specifically disqualifies eSports from being sports.

What about your distinction isn't arbitrary? What is it about the difference you're highlighting, that actually means something?

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Urban Hat€monger ?

It's no more arbitrary than yours is.

You've not listed one reason as to why I should change my mind. It seems you've already made up your mind what is & what isn't a sport so why even put it up for debate.

I've given you a perfectly valid reason as to why I don't think it is a sport, if you disagree with it then fine, but it's no more pulled out of my ass than your opinion is.

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midnight rain

I don't think eSports giving athletes attributes is any different than sports giving athletes rules they need to operate within. eSports players are given an environment to interact in (like a playing field) and certain settings that are geared towards balanced gameplay (equivalent to rules in sports). Beyond this, it is up to the player to use his physical/mental prowess to get ahead of other players in the esport.

Mrd00d

I like how UH says "yet" because I have the idea that once we enter the age of playing first person shooters and real time strategy games with augmented virtual reality, incorporating the concepts of the Wii-mote/that new thing where the camera can tell your movements or whatever that we will be able to satisfy UH's definition.

Holy run-on sentence Batman.

But I'm in GB's camp, more or less. I brought this discussion to my friend's circle and was able to win them over.

All that GB is asking, in essence, is that you consider professional, tournament style gaming with the professional games and sponsorships, broadcast on television, etc. as a type of sport.

He's not asking you to say it's an equivalent of physical sports like soccer, hockey, football, etc.

He's basically asking you to agree that SINCE sports like golf, darts, snooker, chess are recognized as... well, sports, that on the professional level, these kind of games can be.

The conversation about "oh well I don't consider golf a sport" comes up, and it's said that sport is an ancient word with a broad definition. Athletics are the main type of sport that is recognized. Sports with athletes. Athletics is inside the bracket of sports. Also under the bracket of sports is darts. There are no dart athletes. It's also a sport, but it's not inside the athletics circle. It's in its own circle, inside the sports umbrella. The point of this thread it seems is to get more folks to understand that logically esports can be put into the same bracket as darts and snooker and the like.

The guy that plays GTA4 8 hours a day every day is a extreme hobbyist. The guy that's got a Pepsi sponsorship, that appears on tv, that is climbing the tournament bracket playing Starcraft or Counter-Strike or whatever is not an athlete so to say, similar to how there are no dart athletes... but they are playing a type of sport.

And it's not taking anything at all away from those that play athletic sports. They're already so popular that most people consider their type of sport the only kind of sport. But as the definition stands, they're all under one umbrella, they just diverge at the point of athleticism vs. mental accuracy, etc. And I wanted to throw in a reminder that 600 actions per minute is ... incredible.

P.S. a Venn diagram would have made all this^ a lot easier to convey.

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Mrd00d's Last.fm

Dr_Rez

I am sorry this post has no actual opinions or advancement in this issue, I just wanted to state my amazement that this topic has brought such intense debate. One could even say Great Debate. Gb you clearly feel very passionately on the topic and are willing to go to scholastic war against anyone who disagrees. That my friend is kickass.

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