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Old 06-04-2015, 12:33 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Muhammad Ali.


The Messi comment made me laugh, i think someone needs to turn off Sky Sports News and get out more. He isn't even the greatest footballer of all time, never mind the greatest sportsman of all time. Lionel Messi hahahaha.
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Old 06-04-2015, 04:41 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Muhammad Ali.


The Messi comment made me laugh, i think someone needs to turn off Sky Sports News and get out more. He isn't even the greatest footballer of all time, never mind the greatest sportsman of all time. Lionel Messi hahahaha.
Ali is the greatest heavyweight probably. But then heavyweight boxing tends to generate the most public interest as they'd beat all the smaller guys in head to head fights which is why casual boxing fans will automatically say his name when asked who the greatest is. Well that and the fact he was such a cultural icon. Ali isnt rated as the best in boxing circles. Everyone who knows boxing will tell you its Ray Robinson.

Mess is the greatest footballer of all time with no real close competitor. The icons of the past like Cruyff, El Diego, Puskas were not as good for the simple fact that the sport has massively moved on since their time. Advancements in tactics, training, diet, equipment, pitches and so on. The most you can say is that they were the best in their generation. Now you can say if they had the same environment as Messi they would be better (they wouldn't) but they didn't and that's just tough.

BTW genuinely pleased to see you back Nurse Duckett
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Old 06-04-2015, 04:46 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Dominik hasek is to goaltenders as gretzky is to players
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Old 06-04-2015, 04:47 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Phil Jackson, Jordan's coach.
The dude said Kobe and Jordan was a coin flip. Maybe we should disregard his opinions?

Also Ryan Giggs won 13 Premier League titles so...
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Old 06-04-2015, 05:07 PM   #15 (permalink)
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ya # of championships is not a good test for how good an individual player is
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Old 06-04-2015, 05:09 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Definitely not in a team sport. Very flawed argument.
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Old 06-05-2015, 09:04 AM   #17 (permalink)
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1970-71 Season

MVP of the regular season. Scoring title. Best defenseman. MVP of the playoffs. Stanley Cup. Sportsman of the year. Canadian athlete of the year.

I think you're thinking of 1969/70, which may have been the craziest single season ever. He put up better numbers later on, but he completely changed hockey that season.

I'm biased as a Bruins fan, but I give the edge to Orr over Gretzky. It's more than just an offensive game. Orr was dominant in every phase of the game, which I just don't think Gretzky was.

I definitely understand the longevity argument though; it is easily the main thing going against Orr. I still think his complete game makes up for that though.
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Old 06-05-2015, 09:15 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Ali is the greatest heavyweight probably. But then heavyweight boxing tends to generate the most public interest as they'd beat all the smaller guys in head to head fights which is why casual boxing fans will automatically say his name when asked who the greatest is. Well that and the fact he was such a cultural icon. Ali isnt rated as the best in boxing circles. Everyone who knows boxing will tell you its Ray Robinson.

Mess is the greatest footballer of all time with no real close competitor. The icons of the past like Cruyff, El Diego, Puskas were not as good for the simple fact that the sport has massively moved on since their time. Advancements in tactics, training, diet, equipment, pitches and so on. The most you can say is that they were the best in their generation. Now you can say if they had the same environment as Messi they would be better (they wouldn't) but they didn't and that's just tough.

BTW genuinely pleased to see you back Nurse Duckett
The Ali/Robinson thing is probably a matter of opinion, they were both great boxers. I think Ali had more to overcome in his life, he did manage to overcome all his problems and still regained and remained world champion, that's why I'd choose him.


The Messi thing isn't really a matter of opinion, and the game moving massively forwards is your opinion but unfortunately its a wrong opinion, if you don't mind me saying it does smell a little bit of Sky/modernmedia propaganda. The game has gone backwards in the last 15-20 years, all they've done is stopped tackling, this makes the game easier for players like Messi. I wouldn't put him in the same class as Maradona or Cryuff or Zidane or Platini ( I'll stop at 4 names, I could have gone on), he wouldn't have been given the same freedom or protection on a football pitch as he gets today. If I'm honest I presumed that the person that suggested Messi is the greatest sportsman of all time was on the wind up and just looking for responses, comments like "he's reaching levels that go beyond what you can expect of humans" do make that poster look cliched and sheltered.



Thank you and its lovely to be back.
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Old 06-05-2015, 09:22 AM   #19 (permalink)
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I give the edge to Orr over Gretzky.
Only 4 players (all forwards) in the entire history of the NHL, averaged more points per game than Orr did.

Wayne Gretzky, Mario Lemieux, Mike Bossy, and Sidney Crosby.

Bobby Orr (a defenseman) averaged more points per game than these other notable forwards:

Steve Yzerman, Joe Sakic, Peter Forsberg, Phil Esposito, Jarri Kuri, Eric Lindros, Marcel Dionne, Guy Lafleur, Evgeni Malkin, Alexander Ovechkin, Jaromir Jagr, Pavel Bure, Brett Hull, Mark Messier, and hundreds of others.

No other defenseman in the history of the NHL has ever won a scoring title. Bobby Orr did it twice - and both times was named best defenseman too.

Orr won the Norris trophy a record 8 consecutive years. No other player has won it more than 3 consecutive years.

For those who are of the opinion that Wayne Gretzky is the greatest ever, try this. Imagine Bobby spent his entire career as a forward and that Gretzky had spent his as a defenseman (hard to do seeing as Wayne was nowhere near tough enough for the position) - now try to imagine how many points each would have scored. Wayne made a career of hanging out by the blue line waiting for outlet passes - Bobby never had that luxury.
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Old 06-05-2015, 09:30 AM   #20 (permalink)
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The Messi thing isn't really a matter of opinion, and the game moving massively forwards is your opinion but unfortunately its a wrong opinion, if you don't mind me saying it does smell a little bit of Sky/modernmedia propaganda. The game has gone backwards in the last 15-20 years, all they've done is stopped tackling, this makes the game easier for players like Messi. I wouldn't put him in the same class as Maradona or Cryuff or Zidane or Platini ( I'll stop at 4 names, I could have gone on), he wouldn't have been given the same freedom or protection on a football pitch as he gets today. If I'm honest I presumed that the person that suggested Messi is the greatest sportsman of all time was on the wind up and just looking for responses, comments like "he's reaching levels that go beyond what you can expect of humans" do make that poster look cliched and sheltered.
So much wrong with this post. So so much. Zidane
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