Most overrated bands ever?

[Megadead2]

My problem with punk is not simplicity--you can do artistic and original things with simple formats, as in the best of pop. And yes, you're right that post-punk did take its spirit and drive from punk, but that has no bearing on the actual quality of punk music. Maybe I was wrong to say that Never Mind the Bollocks had a negative effect on music, but that does not change its content: slick, safe hard rock based on fat, glossy power chords, with by modern standards little energy or intensity, with artless, machoistic, and politcally unintelligent lyrics.

[Urban Hat€monger ?]

Originally Posted by Megadead2

Maybe I was wrong to say that Never Mind the Bollocks had a negative effect on music, but that does not change its content: slick, safe hard rock based on fat, glossy power chords, with by modern standards little energy or intensity, with artless, machoistic, and politcally unintelligent lyrics.

Thats what I love about that album

[boo boo]

Judging punk entirely on The Sex Pistols is like judging prog entirely on ELP.

Which unfortunately a lot of people do in both cases.

And I wouldn't really call a song like God Save the Queen safe, at least in it's lyrical content.

Though I think in itself, Sex Pistols weren't really safe, because to be safe you have to be at least competent musicians, and The Sex Pistols were so freaking awful that there was indeed something fresh and defiant about their music.

Originally Posted by Megadead2

My problem with punk is not simplicity--you can do artistic and original things with simple formats, as in the best of pop. And yes, you're right that post-punk did take its spirit and drive from punk, but that has no bearing on the actual quality of punk music. Maybe I was wrong to say that Never Mind the Bollocks had a negative effect on music, but that does not change its content: slick, safe hard rock based on fat, glossy power chords, with by modern standards little energy or intensity,

I don't know how you could possibly say The Sex Pistols weren't energetic and intense. Talented? No, but they were very energetic.

Just because their guitarist didn't give shred solos and make stupid "emotional" faces doesn't mean they lacked energy, if anything, energy was the one thing they had going for them.

with artless, machoistic, and politcally unintelligent lyrics.

Dude, have you read some of Peter Sinfield and Greg Lake's lyrics lately?

I don't really know where you get the machoism in punk thing from.

I see a lot more women involved in punk than with prog. Hell, Rush were notoriously sexist, I say that even as a fan.

Since you hate punk and love prog, you'll probably get a kick out of these, or lose your shit and send your fist through the monitor. One or the other.

Death to the Beatles.
History Of Punk - Genesis, ELP & Yes
The History Of Punk - Tommy, Jethro Tull, Rick Wakeman & King Crimson

I remember reading these a few years and they sent me into a fanboy rage, saying stuff like "Punk fans with their short attention spans and utter disgust for talent wouldn't know music if it bit them in the ass". But now I just laugh at the stupidity of such elitists, and you should too.

I love prog AND punk, and I'm really tired of people who still think there's some kind of war going on. Can't we all just get along?

[Megadead2]

Originally Posted by boo boo

I don't know how you could possibly say The Sex Pistols weren't energetic and intense. Talented? No, but they were very energetic.

Just because their guitarist didn't give shred solos and make stupid "emotional" faces doesn't mean they lacked energy, if anything, energy was the one thing they had going for them.

Oh man I despise shred solos and cheesy displays of emotion. That's not what I mean. I mean that they have been surpassed, that if you are looking to them for emotion and energy and intensity then there are plenty of more moderns that are exponentially greater. Listen to "God Save the Queen" then listen to "New Noise" by Refused and tell me that the latter doesn't put the former to shame in those respects.

I see a lot more women involved in punk than with prog. Hell, Rush were notoriously sexist, I say that even as a fan.

I'm trying to bring the discussion away from punk and back towards the Sex Pistols here...there have been many women involved in punk, especially in the 1990s but perhaps in the '70s as well, but I find the persona that Johnny Rotten specifically projected as being very machoistic. Incidentally, I'm actually not a Rush fan. I think that hard rock in general--which includes Rush and also Styx, Triumph, Warrant, Twisted Sister, etc. all the way down to a modern band like Hinder--tends towards misogyny, but I'm not sure Sex Pistols aren't part of that same continuum.

I love prog AND punk, and I'm really tired of people who still think there's some kind of war going on. Can't we all just get along?

You're probably right, the prog vs. punk dichotomy is in many ways a relic of '70s class warfare that should be forgotten. I still don't really enjoy traditional-style punk though. Like I said before, I enjoy the more emotional, more artistic, and even the more poppy (there's some worthwhile pop punk out there) side of the genre, but the original bands don't excite me.

[boo boo]

Originally Posted by Megadead2

Oh man I despise shred solos and cheesy displays of emotion. That's not what I mean. I mean that they have been surpassed, that if you are looking to them for emotion and energy and intensity then there are plenty of more moderns that are exponentially greater. Listen to "God Save the Queen" then listen to "New Noise" by Refused and tell me that the latter doesn't put the former to shame in those respects.

This is when you gotta take historical context into account, there wouldn't be a Refused without a Sex Pistols.

And while they may not seem like much now, in 1977 it was a different story, this was a time when the radio was more full of stuff like Foreigner and Boston than it was with progressive rock, so to say Sex Pistols made rock "safe" is foolish.

Punk paved the way for a lot of experimental and ambitious bands.

I'm trying to bring the discussion away from punk and back towards the Sex Pistols here...there have been many women involved in punk, especially in the 1990s but perhaps in the '70s as well, but I find the persona that Johnny Rotten specifically projected as being very machoistic.

You do realise that songs like "No Feelings" are supposed to be ironic right?

Incidentally, I'm actually not a Rush fan. I think that hard rock in general--which includes Rush and also Styx, Triumph, Warrant, Twisted Sister, etc.--tends towards misogyny, but I'm not sure Sex Pistols aren't part of that same continuum.

Well that's just one band, maybe they were sexist people but that didn't really come through their music I think, despite their name, The Sex Pistols didn't really write songs about sexual matters.

You gotta remember that the punk scene saw a greater movement of female musicians than anything that came before it. Patti Smith, The Runaways, Joan Jett, Siouxie & The Banshees, Wendy O, The Slits, The Raincoats, Blondie, The B-52s, Tina Weymouth, Eve Libertine, Poison Ivy (The Cramps), etc.

You never saw a lot of women in 70s prog, aside from Kate Bush and that chick from Renaissance.

You're probably right, the prog vs. punk dichotomy is in many ways a relic of '70s class warfare that should be forgotten. I still don't really enjoy traditional-style punk though. Like I said before, I enjoy the more emotional, more artistic, and even the more poppy (there's some worthwhile pop punk out there) side of the genre, but the original bands don't excite me.

I'm more into the early hardcore and post punk stuff but early punk had some great stuff too. I love The Buzzcocks.

[Megadead2]

Originally Posted by boo boo

This is when you gotta take historical context into account, there wouldn't be a Refused without a Sex Pistols.

And while they may not seem like much now, in 1977 it was a different story, this was a time when the radio was more full of stuff like Foreigner and Boston than it was with progressive rock, so to say Sex Pistols made rock "safe" is foolish.

The point isn't that they made rock safer than it was, it's that they just weren't much more "dangerous" than those bands. They were basically manufactured by Malcolm McLaren, and while they may well have meant it (I hope not) their politics basically served as shock tactics (is Marilyn Manson "dangerous"? I don't think so). For a '70s band that really expressed left-wing political ideals with artfullness and passion at the same time, look into Henry Cow--or Gang of Four for that matter. And I also think that historical significance shouldn't have any bearing on how music's actual quality is rated. Pong was important historically, but is it really still the greatest video game of all time? It's not even close, no one really thinks it's the best ever. But, the modern video game industry would not exist without it, because it was so important in showing that video games could be commercially successful. Yet, lists of the greatest pop albums of all time tend to be dominated by music that has since been surpassed by later bands working on the templates their predecessors established.

Well that's just one band, maybe they were sexist people but that didn't really come through their music I think, despite their name, The Sex Pistols didn't really write songs about sexual matters.

The reason I think Rotten seems machoistic is because whenever he says "fock you" it sounds like he means "adore me".

You gotta remember that the punk scene saw a greater movement of female musicians than anything that came before it. Patti Smith, The Runaways, Joan Jett, Siouxie & The Banshees, Wendy O, The Slits, The Raincoats, Blondie, The B-52s, Tina Weymouth, Eve Libertine, Poison Ivy (The Cramps), etc.

As I said, that might be true, but it has little to do with the Sex Pistols' music specifically.

You never seen a lot of women in 70s prog, aside from Kate Bush and that chick from Renaissance.

It's true that the Victorian tendencies of commercial prog may have contained misogynistic leanings, but I am not a fan of the most obviously sexist prog bands--ELP come to mind--anyway. I don't think there was anything remotely machoistic about the music of, say, Yes.

[asshat]

Originally Posted by boo boo

I see a lot more women involved in punk than with prog. Hell, Rush were notoriously sexist, I say that even as a fan.

As a secret Rush fan I'm interested. I thought you had to have some exposure to girls to be called sexist.Did they actually have groupies? What was the dirt?