Why is "Post-Punk" even considered "Punk"?

JGuy Grungeman · 07-07-2016, 10:50 PM

I formed my opinion of prog by comparing their practices with other prog bands, noticing similarites. In fact, before I did that, I asked myself, "why do prog bands like Floyd and Rush always separate songs into parts" or say things like " they sure like writing concept albums about the mind" and other things. Eventually, before I ever reqd any article, I said "Yeah, I can totally see it."

So you and I have something in common, Frown. We form an opinion of a genre before looking it up. Only reason I ever brought up an article was to attept to explain my opinion because I'm sometimes bad at explanations.

JGuy Grungeman · 07-07-2016, 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grindy

That was uncalled for.
I also know and care way too little about Grunge to want to enter that debate. It was just an example of the non-musical arguments you seem to be prefering in such discussions. Not that stuff like that doesn't matter at all, but it's kinda secondary.

Sorry. Didn't mean to offend. But you did say something fairly rude yourself, and it sounded like something an agitated child would say. I took it to mean you were insultingn my intelligence somehow, so I just trolled a little so I didn't get angry.

"Well excuse me for doing this.
This is how it is, that's it."

That's pretty much what you said. If you don't care, you wouldn't have said that. So are you annoyed by something?

**Frownland** · 07-07-2016, 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JGuy Grungeman

I formed my opinion of prog by comparing their practices with other prog bands, noticing similarites. In fact, before I did that, I asked myself, "why do prog bands like Floyd and Rush always separate songs into parts" or say things like " they sure like writing concept albums about the mind" and other things.

Those three qualities do not belong to prog. Sometimes genres share characteristics, it's pretty earth-shattering.

JGuy Grungeman · 07-07-2016, 10:56 PM

No, but those and many other characteristics shared between prog bands are what also make prog, as you would say, "vague" and "accepting."

I'm pretty much done for the night. I'm gettin' tired.

grindy · 07-07-2016, 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JGuy Grungeman

Sorry. Didn't mean to offend. But you did say something fairly rude yourself, and it sounded like something an agitated child would say. I took it to mean you were insultingn my intelligence somehow, so I just trolled a little so I didn't get angry.

"Well excuse me for doing this.
This is how it is, that's it."

That's pretty much what you said. If you don't care, you wouldn't have said that. So are you annoyed by something?

Nah, chill. We're good.
I just thought you might have confused me with Frownland there for a minute. People often do that.
I love the expression "Well, excuse me for..." and often use it humorously in my day-to-day life.

JGuy Grungeman · 07-07-2016, 11:04 PM

Alrite.

**Frownland** · 07-07-2016, 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janszoon

I consider DSotM and WYWH both pretty distinct from their earlier definitely psychedelic albums. The rootsy underpinnings and 60s pop rock sensibilities of psychedelic music were gone by that time—replaced by more a intricate and controlled style, a wider range of influences, heavy use of synths, big concepts, the occasional odd time signature, etc.

That's all true that they moved in a different direction from their early work, but I think that they still stuck within the psychedelic realm for both of those albums because that's an equally vague genre. Like I said, those are their progishest albums, but they're still largey psychedelic.

Quote:

Animals was moving more in the direction of the art rock that followed—and was a deliberate response to punk on their part—but still had long tracks with multiple movements, a noticeable jazz influence, heavy use of various keyboards, etc.

Okay, I can see that a little bit more now because of your note on the jazz influence. However, I would say that neither long songs with many movements nor dynamic keyboard use are exclusive to prog, despite both being cliches within the genre. The rootsy elements on this one are really strong and make me lean more towards psychedelic than anything. I'd still say that it rivals Operation: Mindcrime in the "hey, that's not really prog" category.

Quote:

I'd say the bigger similarity is that both are very vaguely defined genres.

I suppose. Wouldn't it be crazy if progressive rock was comprised entirely of bands that were legitimately progressive? It's too bad that so many of them thrive on regurgitating the same old shit. Axe to grind aside, do you think that AiC had a strong influence on the grunge world?

grindy · 07-07-2016, 11:14 PM

As much as I hate the term, 'Art Rock' might actually be a pretty good way to categorize Pink Floyd.

Also: Holy crap, is this thread off topic lately.

**Frownland** · 07-07-2016, 11:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grindy

As much as I hate the term, 'Art Rock' might actually be a pretty good way to categorize Pink Floyd.

Also: Holy crap, is this thread off topic lately.

To me, the term "art rock" makes about as much sense as "bread bagel." It's not false but isn't it kind of redundant?

grindy · 07-07-2016, 11:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frownland

To me, the term "art rock" makes about as much sense as "bread bagel." It's not false but isn't it kind of redundant?

Sure, redundant as ****. As redundant as Pink Floyd repeating the same boring part for the umpteenth time on one of their longtracks.

07-07-2016, 10:50 PM	#211 (permalink)
JGuy Grungeman Primo Celebate Sexiness Join Date: Apr 2014 Posts: 2,662	I formed my opinion of prog by comparing their practices with other prog bands, noticing similarites. In fact, before I did that, I asked myself, "why do prog bands like Floyd and Rush always separate songs into parts" or say things like " they sure like writing concept albums about the mind" and other things. Eventually, before I ever reqd any article, I said "Yeah, I can totally see it." So you and I have something in common, Frown. We form an opinion of a genre before looking it up. Only reason I ever brought up an article was to attept to explain my opinion because I'm sometimes bad at explanations. __________________ I'm a pretty nice troll if you ask me.

07-07-2016, 10:56 PM	#214 (permalink)
JGuy Grungeman Primo Celebate Sexiness Join Date: Apr 2014 Posts: 2,662	No, but those and many other characteristics shared between prog bands are what also make prog, as you would say, "vague" and "accepting." I'm pretty much done for the night. I'm gettin' tired. __________________ I'm a pretty nice troll if you ask me.

07-07-2016, 11:04 PM	#216 (permalink)
JGuy Grungeman Primo Celebate Sexiness Join Date: Apr 2014 Posts: 2,662	Alrite. __________________ I'm a pretty nice troll if you ask me.

07-07-2016, 11:14 PM	#218 (permalink)
grindy . Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: . Posts: 7,201	As much as I hate the term, 'Art Rock' might actually be a pretty good way to categorize Pink Floyd. Also: Holy crap, is this thread off topic lately. __________________ *A smell of petroleum prevails throughout.*