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Old 08-19-2013, 12:35 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default The Constructive Ideas Thread

This is to replace the clusterf*ck of the other thread.

Rules.

1. Only post or comment on ideas, not people
2. Any posts criticising a person or people will be deleted
3. Repeat offenders will be given infractions & bans
4. Be Nice, and if you can't do that bite your tongue and go somewhere else because we're not interested.
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Old 08-19-2013, 01:44 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Can I just throw in my "member of the week" idea and confirm nobody is interested, as there was no response in the other thread, not that it surprises me, due to all the you-know going on...
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Old 08-19-2013, 01:50 PM   #3 (permalink)
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You should explain it again. I stopped going to that thread.

What happens if you're member of the week?
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Old 08-19-2013, 02:26 PM   #4 (permalink)
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I dunno to be honest. I thought maybe a thread where the member of the week would be mentioned. Didn't really think it through as it seemed to get no real support. The idea being that people would visit and see, hey that guy, or girl, is member of the week. How do I get that? And you get it by being voted --- either by PMs from members who have to support their vote; you can't just vote for your friends unless there's a valid reason, or by a team of maybe mods and members who would decide --- the person who contributed the most to the forum that week.

Maybe you created a thread everyone loved, or helped someone out of a personal situation, or just fostered a better attitude throughout the forum. Maybe you started or restarted a great journal, or posted a great review. Or maybe you calmed down some drama. I guess it would be up to the members/committee to decide, but I just thought it might help to promote better behaviour here if there was a small reward system, nothing big or even tangible, just a stupid mention (you could maybe add it to your sig proudly) and a ham. Okay, maybe not a ham.
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Old 08-19-2013, 02:44 PM   #5 (permalink)
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I feel like that's likely to cause other drama. We already have the member awards thread, and I feel like that's great because it's annual. No need to pick someone every week, you know? I personally think we should stick with more ideas that are involved with the musical aspect of MB, so that we can get more activity over there, rather than the lounge which is already active.

What I'm really saying is...
I'll only do it if there's a ham.
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Old 08-19-2013, 02:50 PM   #6 (permalink)
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I will reiterate some of my previous comments here, and make some new statements in light of everything that's occured, and contrary to some posts I have previously made in support of the mod team -

Firstly, I suggest the immediate removal of the politics forum. Its been a lightning rod for too long and encourages more argument than discussion, not to mention its seperation into its own thing compounds the problem by ensuring that only those people looking to not just discuss, but debate, politics, will enter and contribute. Removing it will lessen the focus of the lounge on silly threads and irreverent discussion by tempering it with serious topics, and will also promote greater participation in those political threads by those members of the site less politically minded but who may still hold opinions on a topic or set of topics.

Secondly, I suggest that there be a review of the spam thread - I feel that spam threads and spam forums contribute to an extant problem by legitimising the act and portraying to current and future members that we will tolerate it within a closed environment - it's a mixed message, spam should either be OK or not OK, and to seperate off a "legitimate spam zone" doesn't help the forum atmosphere.

Thirdly, I second Trollheart's "member of the week" idea - not only would a more-than-once-yearly recognition of our best members go a long way to improving atmosphere, but consider the other potential improvements it would bring:

1 - Mods would have to determine our best members monthly, and in so doing would be forced to non-aggressively discuss with each other what qualities they find most endearing and positive about given members, leading to greater mod-team-harmony. (This is pie in the sky, but whatevs, I can hope)
2 - Having an easy reference of many individual winners of the Member of The Month, would make it more apparent on a forum-wide scale, exactly which members are to be emulated, and would mean that there'd be less confusion as to exactly what sort of contribution a positive member needs to make.
3 - The ego boost given by recieving an accolade, might well be counterbalanced by the tacit admission that said accolade was achieved by not posting like a complete ****.

Thirdly, and this is the big one: I rescind my assertion from the previous thread, that the moderation here is not at fault.

I instead propose that the moderation style of this forum is too lax and/or too fragmented to be able to effectively deal with problems. The previous thread is a textbook example of exactly why the threads about Boo Boo and Dirty getting banned both turned into similar ****storms, and plenty of others besides.

Allowing drama to sit and fester in a thread for over a week, then closing it with no action taken against anyone involved, to me seems to be almost denying that there is a problem or that it can be addressed directly. It makes the mod team seem like they spend their time doing one of two things:

1 - Fearing community backlash to such a degree they refuse to undertake decisions that would create it.
2 - Being so unable to agree on a course of action, that they cannot come to a shared conclusion and actually take that action.

I'm sure none of the mod team would agree this is the case, but from a members perspective, to simply end a discussion without addressing why it went so, so sour, nor making any ruling against or for any party in any way, seems to be a simple cop-out.

I think there needs to be a review of how moderation works on MB. When it was booboo, I took the mods corner. When it was Dirty, I took the mods corner. Every time since, I've taken the view that the mods do a very tough job very well. When it came to this, I took the mods corner again, because I believed we had a fair, effective mod team that would and could do what needed to be done to keep things, if not reasonable, at least under control enough that positive feeling could shine through an argument - look at the booboo and dirty threads if you don't believe me. ****storms as much as they were, there was good humour in those discussions and people seemed to enjoy being here a lot more than was shown in the previous thread.

The previous happenings though, didn't seem to me to be a lack of moderation born of restraint and a dedication to doing the right thing only when necessary. All I saw in the previous thread was that 40+ pages of argument happened, and that the only 2 attempts to moderate it in any way were to split it off into its own thread, which failed spectacularly, and to close the thread entirely, which less "worked" so much as just threw that discussion directly into the shoutbox and forces people to now try and address it indirectly in this thread.

I don't necessarily have fantastic suggestions on how to improve the mod team right now. All I can say for certain is that whatever system you guys operate under now seems to simply be hamstringing you and preventing any sort of decisive or worthwhile action being taken, in favour of simply allowing disruptive members to run riot based on them not being disruptive "Enough".

TL;DR - 40 pages of unmoderated, vicious argument doesn't happen under the watch of 7/8 different moderators including the threadstarter and many members of the discussion itself, unless something is very, very wrong with the way moderation is being handled.

In fact, I make the suggestion - Can any of the mods suggest to us exactly why they feel they personally, and as a group, did not have the power, authority, consensus or justification, whichever may be the case, to have moderated that thread in a more timely, effective, or simply direct, manner? Is it dischord within the team, the lack of a defined approach all mods should be taking, differences in opinion, a need to clarify what is and is not rulebreaking, a difference of opinion regarding grey areas, or something else?

I feel like while we as members can obviously do a lot ourselves to improve the forum, the previous thread has made it very clear that we need something better than what happened in the previous thread, for when things and people inevitably do go awry, and if that is to happen, the mod team needs to either restructure itself, or crowdsource a solution to the same question. Whichever it is I don't mind, but fixing it from your side, where you have all the info about mod team structure, seems the intuitive way of doing it, unless the mod team see's fit to share exactly how it works with either us, the community, else a select number of members making up that community who the mod team may select in order to hear their input or to invite them into a private discussion.
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Last edited by GuitarBizarre; 08-19-2013 at 03:00 PM.
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Old 08-19-2013, 03:27 PM   #7 (permalink)
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There is no official moderator policy when it comes to handling matters. It's a very fluid, very relaxed, very inconsistent thing that depends on who is doing the moderating more than it depends on what is being penalized, who is being penalized, or what group consensus is. Whether or not this is effective is I think a matter for the community to decide upon. Those who see it working positively remain moderators and continue to function under this system, and those who don't have departed.

I do think that this is constructive criticism, whether or not those to whom it applies agree or are interested in hearing it, so I would hate for this to be taken the wrong way and to be used to detract from yet another thread addressing problems deeply rooted in this forum's structure.
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Old 08-19-2013, 03:30 PM   #8 (permalink)
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I generally agree with GB that moderation is not working as well as it should on the site and that is is too lenient.

Some suggestions in regards to moderation :
  • Create a mod guide with specific examples that, besides usual business, gives clear cut answers how to deal with "grey areas". [Ex. Member X has borderline trolled for weeks. Suggested solution : 2 weeks temp ban. Should member resume bad behaviour after returning, suggested solution : Perm ban.] The goal is to have faster and more consistent and efficient moderation. It should also make it easier to mod, particularly for those new in the job.
  • In the future, be less comprimising with moderation. Don't negotiate moderation with members. Don't share your insecurities regarding modship. Act with decisiveness and confidence.
  • Edit members posts so that they adhere to the rules, f.ex by removing insults. Leave notice in red stating why the post was edited and perhaps a reminder that people should behave. This shows the community that moderation is taking place and it is an excellent way of demonstrating where the lines are drawn.

edit :

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There is no official moderator policy when it comes to handling matters. It's a very fluid, very relaxed, very inconsistent thing that depends on who is doing the moderating more than it depends on what is being penalized, who is being penalized, or what group consensus is. Whether or not this is effective is I think a matter for the community to decide upon. Those who see it working positively remain moderators and continue to function under this system, and those who don't have departed.

I do think that this is constructive criticism, whether or not those to whom it applies agree or are interested in hearing it, so I would hate for this to be taken the wrong way and to be used to detract from yet another thread addressing problems deeply rooted in this forum's structure.
I agree with this.
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Old 08-19-2013, 03:31 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pedestrian View Post
There is no official moderator policy when it comes to handling matters. It's a very fluid, very relaxed, very inconsistent thing that depends on who is doing the moderating more than it depends on what is being penalized, who is being penalized, or what group consensus is. Whether or not this is effective is I think a matter for the community to decide upon. Those who see it working positively remain moderators and continue to function under this system, and those who don't have departed.

I do think that this is constructive criticism, whether or not those to whom it applies agree or are interested in hearing it, so I would hate for this to be taken the wrong way and to be used to detract from yet another thread addressing problems deeply rooted in this forum's structure.
I don't think we can really state 100% that the current moderators "See that working positively" - Every mod and ex-mod I've spoken to about this has told me the same thing regards moderation consensus - There isn't much of it to speak of when it comes to the longer term problems or larger issues. Whether that's shared by the mods I haven't spoken to is a mystery.
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As for me, my inbox is as of yet testicle-free, and hopefully remains that way. Don't the rest of you get any ideas.
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I'll have you know, my ancestors were Kings of Wicklow! We're as Irish as losing a three-nil lead in a must-win fixture!
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Old 08-19-2013, 03:32 PM   #10 (permalink)
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The problem with implementing any sort of policy that will allow moderators to agree on the treatment of a situation is that no set policy can be agreed upon in the first place.
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