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-   -   Is classical music still relevant today? (https://www.musicbanter.com/classical/71368-classical-music-still-relevant-today.html)

Frownland 01-04-2017 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Victor Frankenstein (Post 1791310)
But you know that if I have to do a list of movies that use classical music to strenghten their stories, mine'll be bigger.

Irrelevant.

Quote:

But Frownland I'm defending classical music not because I'm a classical music lover, but because nowadays all commercial movies and trailer of those movies push a lot in the audio language and the emotional contagion, in which audio has a really important role.. and the 80% of the case directors diceded to emit feels through classical music. But this is not my point of view, it's what the producers are doing (and it's the second time that I'm saying this).
Yeah there are a lot of movies around, seriously a lot, and it's impossible, objectively talking, that all movies have the same musical genre as soundtrack, but I started talking about marketing and I have to show you that in this mudhole called marketing the use of some classical track is almost a must, please go and watch the trailers of the last commercial movies, you can see from yourself that the tracks are quite similar.

However this thread doesn't talk about the difference between classical music and other genres, but if classical musical is revelant nowadays.
And well it is.
I'm aware of how ubiquitous it is in the industry. I just think it's so for arbitrary reasons. Rock, jazz, folk, electronica, and really any other genre can be used just as successfully as classical. I quite love classical music, it's just not the be all end all of soundtracks.

Blank. 01-04-2017 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Victor Frankenstein (Post 1791283)
1blankmind, classical music can emit the emotion even if the actors are not present, like the opening scene of Forrest Gump

Not what I was saying. My point was that classical is a genre that will emit emotion while not stealing the scene from the actors. Not that it needs a scene to emit emotion.

All genres emit emotion. Like R.E.M.'s losing my religion emits a sad emotion.

Neapolitan 01-04-2017 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Victor Frankenstein (Post 1791312)
I don't know this movie

It's really a shame that not only Classical music is often overlooked, but also movie adaptions of famous English writers like William Shakespeare. The movie is based on Macbeth and takes place in Scotland, Pa. - in a restaurant called "McBeth's." It ... has... Christopher Walken ... in it.

http://pics.imcdb.org/0is126/scotlan...04xz3.2864.jpg
http://www.haro-online.com/stuff/scotlan2.jpg

The Batlord 01-04-2017 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Victor Frankenstein (Post 1791310)
Okay you did interesting examples, for sure you have good taste in movies, but I have something to say about them.

During the 60's Jazz had the main role in the cinema, and obviously if you have to do a movie about american gangstar is better jazz or ragtime than classical, or you can do a movie about gangster and put it Beethoven and make A Clockwork Orange 2.0

Anyway, all the movies that you names (all fantastic movies) are not commercial movies (except the 60's ones)
But you know that if I have to do a list of movies that use classical music to strenghten their stories, mine'll be bigger.

But Frownland I'm defending classical music not because I'm a classical music lover, but because nowadays all commercial movies and trailer of those movies push a lot in the audio language and the emotional contagion, in which audio has a really important role.. and the 80% of the case directors diceded to emit feels through classical music. But this is not my point of view, it's what the producers are doing (and it's the second time that I'm saying this).
Yeah there are a lot of movies around, seriously a lot, and it's impossible, objectively talking, that all movies have the same musical genre as soundtrack, but I started talking about marketing and I have to show you that in this mudhole called marketing the use of some classical track is almost a must, please go and watch the trailers of the last commercial movies, you can see from yourself that the tracks are quite similar.

However this thread doesn't talk about the difference between classical music and other genres or if movies have or not another genres as soundtrack (even if I was talking about the emit of feels through classical music in fact I did the example of the opening scene of Forrest Gump that explain very well what I'm saying) but if classical musical is revelant nowadays.
And well it is.

The fact that you're reduced to talking about movie soundtracks that 99% of the audience don't care about cause they're busy watching the film is kind of evidence that it's not relevant.

Frownland 01-04-2017 06:24 PM

#1 selling CD of 2016 was Mozart. Relevant.

ChelseaDagger 01-04-2017 06:28 PM

CDs are still relevant?

Blank. 01-04-2017 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChelseaDagger (Post 1791331)
CDs are still relevant?

I hope they are relevant enough to stay around. That's my way of owning music.

Neapolitan 01-04-2017 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChelseaDagger (Post 1791331)
CDs are still relevant?

It's one way of investing your money, more interest than a savings account.

Blank. 01-04-2017 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frownland (Post 1791315)
Irrelevant.



I'm aware of how ubiquitous it is in the industry. I just think it's so for arbitrary reasons. Rock, jazz, folk, electronica, and really any other genre can be used just as successfully as classical. I quite love classical music, it's just not the be all end all of soundtracks.

You really think jazz emits emotion well? I'm not a fan of it, but I always felt it didn't do to well with emotion.

ChelseaDagger 01-04-2017 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neapolitan (Post 1791334)
It's one way of investing your money, more interest than a savings account.

Money's still relevant post-recession? I figured everyone just bartered with socks, sex, and souls.

Frownland 01-04-2017 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1blankmind (Post 1791335)
You really think jazz emits emotion well? I'm not a fan of it, but I always felt it didn't do to well with emotion.

You probably just don't know enough of it. Technically, jazz is 100% emotion. The song Strange Fruit is probably one of the more classic examples as it's so moving.




Neapolitan 01-04-2017 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1blankmind (Post 1791335)
You really think jazz emits emotion well? I'm not a fan of it, but I always felt it didn't do to well with emotion.

Depends what kind of Jazz you are listening to like Free Form, or Cool Jazz etc. etc. daddy-o.

Autumn Leaves was 50s movie starring Joan Crawford. It was original called "The Way We Are" but the movie had a name change to ride on the coat tails of songs success and popularity. The movie uses Nat King Cole's version. I thought Stan Getz did a very emotional rendition on saxamaphone.

Stan Getz-Autumn Leaves

djchameleon 01-05-2017 12:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frownland (Post 1791326)
#1 selling CD of 2016 was Mozart. Relevant.

Yeah, for a 200 CD box set that kind of artificially inflates the numbers.

If you said that Mozart was the most streamed artist of 2016 then I would say it is relevant.

Frownland 01-05-2017 12:04 AM

Blah blah blah blah music goes so much further than the charts blah blah tenderized horse flesh blah it's not the 80s dude blah blah whack whack whack you don't know what relevant is babble babble what was once niche is now accessible to everyone not just tiny local scenes like it used to be blah blah. Blah.

Blank. 01-05-2017 12:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djchameleon (Post 1791438)
Yeah, for a 200 CD box set that kind of artificially inflates the numbers.

If you said that Mozart was the most streamed artist of 2016 then I would say it is relevant.

I think the fact that it sold 6250 units still says relevant. It costs 550 dollars on ebay. That's a good chunk of money. And if 6250 people had the money to spare, I'm sure an even larger number of people wanted it but couldn't afford it.

djchameleon 01-05-2017 03:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1blankmind (Post 1791441)
I think the fact that it sold 6250 units still says relevant. It costs 550 dollars on ebay. That's a good chunk of money. And if 6250 people had the money to spare, I'm sure an even larger number of people wanted it but couldn't afford it.

Basically old people wanted it meaning they could afford it/fans. The genre overall still isn't popular in comparison to other genres. The question posed in the OP doesn't talk about if there are or aren't still fans of classical music. Clearly there are and I'm one of them. The question is more about classical music's presence outside of the fans and it being shoved at music theory students faces.

I have also admitted that it does have it's niche audience and of course soundtracks come into play but when you compare them to other genres there is no way that you can say they are on the same level.

Frownland 01-05-2017 04:02 AM

#assumptionville
#bitchitsjustaspopularasseveralgenres
#youredeadwrongdeejjjustacceptit

Victor Frankenstein 01-05-2017 06:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batlord (Post 1791325)
The fact that you're reduced to talking about movie soundtracks that 99% of the audience don't care about cause they're busy watching the film is kind of evidence that it's not relevant.

Well I'm not so superficial, but you know, a movie without a soundtrack is a half movie.

Vinnie 01-06-2017 06:12 AM

A very good music soundtrack can make a movie even better. I like to listen to classic (movie) music when I'm studying. :)
The advantage of most classic music is that there are no lyrics, which is an advantage while you study.

djchameleon 01-06-2017 08:35 AM

I used to do that. The studying thing but you can do it with any instrumental music. It doesn't have to only be classical music.

Frownland 01-06-2017 08:39 AM

Lyrics don't distract me anyway. This was and is my favourite study/focus piece


Trollheart 01-10-2017 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1blankmind (Post 1791335)
You really think jazz emits emotion well? I'm not a fan of it, but I always felt it didn't do to well with emotion.

EVen I can admit a smoky sax solo can make the hairs on the back of my neck stand up.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Victor Frankenstein (Post 1791481)
Well I'm not so superficial, but you know, a movie without a soundtrack is a half movie.

What about silent movies?

Also, I think you may be labouring under a misapprehension here. Most of the composers you've spoken of in the last few posts are not classical composers. They compose classical-like music, but that doesn't mean it is classical. I think you'd be hard pressed to find too many movies which rely on a completely or even partially actual classical soundtrack. The music prevalent in films these days does indeed often sound classical, but that doesn't make it classical. Williams, Jarre, Barry etc are all working in this field and you couldn't call them classical composers. If anything, they're film composers. They often use classical tropes, but they're not writing classical music.

Frownland 01-10-2017 11:27 AM

Do you mean Classical Period music or just classical music?

Also, when people who don't like or listen to jazz think the genre doesn't portray emotion well, that tells you a lot about how uninformed that opinion is.

The Batlord 01-10-2017 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trollheart (Post 1793309)
EVen I can admit a Kenny G sax solo can make the hairs on the back of my neck stand up.

.

Trollheart 01-10-2017 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batlord (Post 1793323)
.

You are a bastard. There's just no two ways about it.

Xurtio 01-15-2017 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frownland (Post 1793311)
Do you mean Classical Period music or just classical music?

Also, when people who don't like or listen to jazz think the genre doesn't portray emotion well, that tells you a lot about how uninformed that opinion is.

There's lots of type of jazz and some of it just technical wankery that's not very interesting in terms of melodic expression, so I could see how someone would think all jazz is like that.

I have really been stuck on Take Five lately. It's not particularly obscure, but it's 5/4 so that's fun.


Spectralmusic 04-24-2017 04:19 AM

It's a very complex question, then the idea of anything being relevant in the first place. Relevant to whom?

Contemporary classical music is definitely relevant but not back up as much as it NEEDS to be. If you don't back up the composers that are composing, living and innovating currently, then the genre is doomed for museum disposal.

Classical music is like every genre, it EVOLVES. My username gives a que to one of the many directions it's gone in the past 50 years, all incredible music!

Yes it's relevant, but relevancy is complicated. Is Beethoven relevant for instance? his style is old, dated and very simplistic compared to the music of today, is he relevant? I don't know

Neward Thelman 05-12-2017 09:17 PM

Batcrap
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batlord (Post 1793323)
.

You're a pre-teen, aren't you?

If not, then ---

The Batlord 05-12-2017 09:20 PM

What the **** is a "Neward Thelman"?

Neward Thelman 05-12-2017 09:38 PM

Get help. You're very, very sick.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Frownland (Post 1793311)
.

Why are you posting here?

I've just seen your posts and the links you've left at the bottom.

You're mentally ill. You're a deeply, frighteningly disturbed individual.

Those links describes acts that I could never have even imagined in all of the many years of my life. Not ever.

This is more than disgusting - it's the effluvia of a profoundly disturbed mind.

I sincerely wish that the moderators would permanently ban you from this site.

Thelonious Monkey 05-12-2017 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neward Thelman (Post 1834678)
Why are you posting here?

I've just seen your posts and the links you've left at the bottom.

You're mentally ill. You're a deeply, frighteningly disturbed individual.

Those links describes acts that I could never have even imagined in all of the many years of my life. Not ever.

This is more than disgusting - it's the effluvia of a profoundly disturbed mind.

I sincerely wish that the moderators would permanently ban you from this site.

Damn, sounds awesome.

The Batlord 05-12-2017 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neward Thelman (Post 1834678)
Why are you posting here?

I've just seen your posts and the links you've left at the bottom.

You're mentally ill. You're a deeply, frighteningly disturbed individual.

Those links describes acts that I could never have even imagined in all of the many years of my life. Not ever.

This is more than disgusting - it's the effluvia of a profoundly disturbed mind.

I sincerely wish that the moderators would permanently ban you from this site.

*masturbates*

Blank. 05-12-2017 11:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neward Thelman (Post 1834678)
Why are you posting here?

I've just seen your posts and the links you've left at the bottom.

You're mentally ill. You're a deeply, frighteningly disturbed individual.

Those links describes acts that I could never have even imagined in all of the many years of my life. Not ever.

This is more than disgusting - it's the effluvia of a profoundly disturbed mind.

I sincerely wish that the moderators would permanently ban you from this site.

Oh! Me next?

Oriphiel 05-13-2017 05:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neward Thelman (Post 1834678)
Why are you posting here?

I've just seen your posts and the links you've left at the bottom.

You're mentally ill. You're a deeply, frighteningly disturbed individual.

Those links describes acts that I could never have even imagined in all of the many years of my life. Not ever.

This is more than disgusting - it's the effluvia of a profoundly disturbed mind.

I sincerely wish that the moderators would permanently ban you from this site.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batlord (Post 1834687)
*masturbates*

*Neward Thelman uses Shame*

*Batlord gains 10 hp*

Raskolnikov 06-09-2017 11:04 AM

Any Vampire Weekend fans in the house? Their first album, which had great commercial and critical success, has a whole lot of classical influence (Chopin, Bach, etc). They incorporated plenty of "world" influences as well (afrobeat, ska). I wouldn't say either of those areas of music are "relevant" to a lot of people, but Vampire Weekend certainly is. (they're my favorite band so pardon my bias).

I also love this quote from the writer Susan Sontag: "And I’ve certainly learned something as a writer from the way Schnabel plays Beethoven, Glenn Gould plays Bach, and Mitsuko Uchida plays Mozart." That's from an interview in 1995, and Sontag is most certainly a "relevant" writer. Tolstoy wrote a whole story named after Beethoven's Kreutzer sonata, Nietzsche cited Beethoven and Wagner plenty in his philosophical works, which continue to influence the cultural elite. And how about Kubrick's use of classical music in his films? Strauss in 2001, Penderecki in The Shining, Beethoven in Clockwork Orange. Personally, since the US 2016 election, I've been fascinated by the music of Shostakovich (composed under Stalin's totalitarian regime) and Wagner's operas, particularly the ring cycle (horrifically appropriated by the Nazis, but beautiful, wildly sensual music nonetheless).

Besides that, classical concerts in the US, and moreso in Europe and Asia, continue to sell out audiences in huge concert halls. The Metropolitan Opera's livestream of Renee Fleming's final performance as the heroine in Strauss' opera "Der Rosenkavalier" was the highest-grossing in box offices a few weekends ago. The Elbphilarmonie, a MASSIVE and extremely expensive new concert hall in Germany, just recently opened as well. There's plenty of evidence for classical music's continued relevance.

But more important than any of that, I think, is if it's relevant to you personally. Does classical music (whether it's Bach, Beethoven, or Boulez) make you feel something? Do you get joy out of it? Does it clarify things for you? Is it interesting to you on a purely intellectual level? Do you get joy from playing it yourself, or watching your friends or loved ones play it? That, I think, is what matters, not simply whether it's enjoyed by a large enough swath of the population or gets enough playtime on the radio. Regardless of whether it's relevant, it exists, the recordings are out there, plenty of people listen to it, it continues to exert outsized influence on modern popular culture, and we ought to seek as much enjoyment as we can from it. :)

Frownland 06-09-2017 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raskolnikov (Post 1844176)
Besides that, classical concerts in the US, and moreso in Europe and Asia, continue to sell out audiences in huge concert halls. The Metropolitan Opera's livestream of Renee Fleming's final performance as the heroine in Strauss' opera "Der Rosenkavalier" was the highest-grossing in box offices a few weekends ago. The Elbphilarmonie, a MASSIVE and extremely expensive new concert hall in Germany, just recently opened as well. There's plenty of evidence for classical music's continued relevance.

I would agree that it's relevant (see my other posts in this thread), but I think this point is confounded a bit by how classical music (especially operas) are sort of a status symbol among many people. There are still plenty of fans in the audience, but I think that there's a significant number of people at those sold out shows who have no interest in the music whatsoever.

Raskolnikov 06-09-2017 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frownland (Post 1844177)
I would agree that it's relevant (see my other posts in this thread), but I think this point is confounded a bit by how classical music (especially operas) are sort of a status symbol among many people. There are still plenty of fans in the audience, but I think that there's a significant number of people at those sold out shows who have no interest in the music whatsoever.

I'm sure you're right, but how would we know how many people are there to just show off/rub shoulders with the hoi polloi? Besides that, I think it's fine to have intentions besides pure musical enjoyment for going to a concert. To me, besides the music, it's thrilling just to watch the musicians play and communicate with each other and the audience. Theater folks with no interest in classical music may go to the opera just for the dramatic elements. Last year, the opera in my city put on Das Rheingold in an absolutely fascinating and innovative production, with much of the orchestra on stage, cyperpunk-inspired costumes, etc. Not to mention, quite a relevant story for November 2016. All this to say, I don't think there's anything wrong with people having different reasons for going to live performances of classical music, so long as they aren't there to disrupt the experience of other people. I actually think it's kind of great that people can get so many different things out of a classical music performance than just the music itself. The halls are often beautiful, and for me, even being in the presence of the performance of a Beethoven symphony or the like makes me feel connected to a long, long cultural tradition. Even if I were deaf, I would probably still enjoy going to the symphony just for that reason.

Frownland 06-09-2017 11:27 AM

BUT THEY'RE POSEURS!

As childish as that sounds, I do actually kind of have a problem with people going to concerts just to be associated with the wealthy. It somewhat dilutes the concert experience and connects an unnecessary power distance to the genre that I think would be better done away with.

Raskolnikov 06-09-2017 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frownland (Post 1844181)
BUT THEY'RE POSEURS!

As childish as that sounds, I do actually kind of have a problem with people going to concerts just to be associated with the wealthy. It somewhat dilutes the concert experience and connects an unnecessary power distance to the genre that I think would be better done away with.

Is this something you've seen a lot of, or you know people who do this? I have a hard time imagining people spending money on orchestra tickets and sitting still for two hours just to be associated with the wealthier folks in the audience. I worked as an usher for a while for the orchestra in my city, which is quite accessible to people of all class backgrounds, but I've never observed anyone coming to a concert just for that reason. And if they did, I'm sure they got more out of it than a chance to be in the presence of the 1%. I'm just curious as to where you've seen people doing that, or how you'd identify it if they were.

Frownland 06-09-2017 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raskolnikov (Post 1844183)
Is this something you've seen a lot of, or you know people who do this? I have a hard time imagining people spending money on orchestra tickets and sitting still for two hours just to be associated with the wealthier folks in the audience. I worked as an usher for a while for the orchestra in my city, which is quite accessible to people of all class backgrounds, but I've never observed anyone coming to a concert just for that reason. And if they did, I'm sure they got more out of it than a chance to be in the presence of the 1%. I'm just curious as to where you've seen people doing that, or how you'd identify it if they were.

It's a pretty common place for people to go dress up, be nice, and feel classy for a night. I've had workmates (I work in the mortgage industry in San Diego, so yuppies are abound) say they were going to to the orchestra and when I follow up with classical music discussion (which composer? what kind do you like?), they usually say something along the lines of "oh I just go because it's nice." These people are typically desperate slaves to social custom and would break their fingers if it was the socially correct/propelling thing to do.

I actually think it's becoming less common the more we move away from classical music being exclusively for kings and royal elite, but it's still present.


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