The Wow I Can't Believe That News Story Thread

[Zhanteimi]

ffs

[Lisnaholic]

Interesting debate about Catholics that I'd like to contribute to if I may:-

i) somebody wrote as if Catholics and Christians were two different religious groups, but surely Catholics are just one sub-division of the Christian faiths?

ii) What makes Catholics different? someone asked. Mainly, it's because they believe that in a Mass there is a literal physical miracle taking place: wine really does become the blood of Christ. Most other faiths which go through that ritual concede that it's just a metaphor.

iii) Lucem is right to point out all the different gradings of Catholics. Some, for instance, just put "Catholic" on a questionaire and never go into a church. In my admittedly-skewed experience, there are a lot of these lazy, lapsed, unaffiliated Catholics around.

iv) I was brought up Catholic: indoctrination at school and Mass every Sunday until age 15. In all that time I never heard a hint of a whisper of a rumour that priests were anything other than men of good conscience. So that's another group of Catholics to add to Lucem's list of divisions, albeit a group that only existed in the past: innocent Catholics who knew nothing about sex scandals until the first one broke in modern times, whenever that was.

v)

Originally Posted by DwnWthVwls

Anecdotal experience tells me athiests know more about religion than the religious. Which makes sense considering how ****ing ridiculous religion is.

^ I agree with this completely: you have to be outside a faith to get a clear perspective on its concepts - the same way you can't understand a chess game if you're down there at pawn level; you have to get some distance to understand what's going on.

vi) Most people know that story about eating an apple from the Tree of Knowledge and getting booted out of Paradise. What's that about? Catholicism is based on faith (see item (ii) above): too much knowledge, too much science, and you'll lose your faith. That's why that story gets promoted - and anyone who abdicates their reason in favour of a system that denies rational evidence is making a very foolish mistake imo.

vii) Today the apple of knowledge includes a pip that's particularly hard to swallow - the fact that for decades the Catholic hierachy has been enabling and abetting sex abuse. So, yeah, Frownland's dismissal of today's Catholics is in many ways justified: with a stain like that on the church, why maintain any loyalty to it at all?

Finally, abuse in the Catholic Church is currently hitting the headlines, but I suspect the turn of other faiths may come too. After all, in the UK, that cultural flagship, the BBC has been rocked with sex scandals in recent years, from Rolf Harris to Top Of The Pops. Surely that more than anything justifies the outraged cry, Is nothing sacred?!

[DwnWthVwls]

Originally Posted by elphenor

well I'm not super qualified to talk about Iran

but the instability of the ME and foreign involvement prevents countries from socially developing

So whats our excuse?

Originally Posted by Zhanteimi

ffs

You rang?

[DwnWthVwls]

Originally Posted by elphenor

atheists say this but it's bluffing I think

because honestly the more I learned about religion the less I saw it as a boogeyman

yes faith makes people easier to take advantage of, but it also gives the oppressed and powerless strength

plus Jesus was a rad d00d

What are you on about? My point had nothing to do with demonizing it and everything to do using your brain to think, “hey this story isnt believable and there is no evidence to support these claims”. Every religious person is capable of doing this which they demonstrate by rejecting the claims of every other religion that isnt their own.

I also dont think faith makes people easier to take advantage of but i do “agree” it gives them the strength to grt through hardship. However this strength actually takes away from their humanity. Look at thr way AA pushes god. Many recovered addicts end up believing they couldnt do it with out accepting jesus which is total **** because christianity is a gigantic work of fixtion and all those people had the atrength to do it on their own. Instead of being proud of themselves for their accomplishments they end up grateful for the big man. I think its pretty easy to make a case against calling this strength but on a basic level i understand the point youre making.

[Oriphiel]

While you guys were debating religion, I was watching Predator 2 with my dog

[OccultHawk]

Lis

Priests have torn up so much prepubescent ass it overshadows the inquisition as Catholicism’s ultimate shame. It’s time for this piece of **** ****ing religion to die. Shame on all the members.

Message to all Catholics: If you do not denounce your faith you’re telling the world it’s ok to rape children.

[Frownland]

Originally Posted by Lucem Ferre

Going to church doesn't mean you support the institution

That's absolutely absurd. I already laid out how going to church or aligning with it are varying shades of supporting Catholicism's atrocities by way of social acceptability. It's not the same as saying "I support paedophilia" out loud and handing 1000 dollars to a rapist priest, but it's a factor in what gives the church the power to institutionalize rape.

Knowing that difference doesn't change the fact that you don't care enough about either sect to find their differences significant in any kind of way.

This is such a weirdly presumptive gotcha. What would you like to know?

[The Batlord]

Originally Posted by Lucem Ferre

Being Catholic doesn't mean you support or are a part of the institution

It explicitly does because the Vatican is led by the Pope and the Pope's word is God's word on Earth. You don't get to criticize the Pope or tell him what to do if you're a Catholic. If the Pope knows about the pedos and does nothing about it but allow his Cardinals to cover up the crimes then Catholics are obligated to bow their heads and keep their mouths shut. If you continue to rep Catholicism then you are repping the Vatican, and if you think you can do the first without doing the second then you are a blasphemer and probably going to hell.

[Anteater]

Originally Posted by Dharma & Greg

It explicitly does because the Vatican is led by the Pope and the Pope's word is God's word on Earth. You don't get to criticize the Pope or tell him what to do if you're a Catholic. If the Pope knows about the pedos and does nothing about it but allow his Cardinals to cover up the crimes then Catholics are obligated to bow their heads and keep their mouths shut. If you continue to rep Catholicism then you are repping the Vatican, and if you think you can do the first without doing the second then you are a blasphemer and probably going to hell.

To a lesser extent, I've made the same argument about Islam in regards to the relationship Muslims allegedly have with Muhammad.

[DwnWthVwls]

This **** is hilarious.. if catholics were some oppressed minority with their leaders doing the same **** you'd be making excuses for every flaw. The only valid point made in this entire debate is Frown saying that supporting the church prepetuates rape/pedophilia. Lemme know when you guys learn how to make the distinction between the institution and the philosophy.