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Old 04-24-2020, 03:09 PM   #22281 (permalink)
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True enough.
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Lucem, you're right, it's silly to talk about what I would or wouldn't do IRL. Glad you brought it up. Maybe you should write an instrumental about it. I recommend a piano paired with a clarinet. With ambient sounds of you hanging from your shower curtain you ****ing failure.

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Old 04-24-2020, 03:10 PM   #22282 (permalink)
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I would've thought fighting to climb the socioeconomic ladder is the opposite of complacency.
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Old 04-24-2020, 03:15 PM   #22283 (permalink)
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Yes, humans are stupid and bound by ancient instincts to hoard resources to make sure they don't starve when crisis shortages occur. A fine instinct to have as a hunter gatherer, but in a modern society it is obsolete and harmful and yet people still do it because they are unable to adapt. We even hoard nuclear weapons beyond when it becomes clear that we have enough to destroy the planet. Like, if a country already has enough nuclear weapons to destroy the planet as a deterrence to our enemies then isn't it the definition of pointless to hoard even more nuclear weapons? And so humans are stupid.
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There is only one bright spot and that is the growing habit of disgruntled men of dynamiting factories and power-stations; I hope that, encouraged now as ‘patriotism’, may remain a habit! But it won’t do any good, if it is not universal.
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Old 04-24-2020, 03:21 PM   #22284 (permalink)
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True enough.
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Lucem, you're right, it's silly to talk about what I would or wouldn't do IRL. Glad you brought it up. Maybe you should write an instrumental about it. I recommend a piano paired with a clarinet. With ambient sounds of you hanging from your shower curtain you ****ing failure.

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Old 04-24-2020, 03:27 PM   #22285 (permalink)
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I would've thought fighting to climb the socioeconomic ladder is the opposite of complacency.
That's not really what we do though. Poor people live in cultures of fellow poor people where they normalize being poor because all their friends and family are poor and so being in that "poor culture" is more desirable than climbing the ladder. They might have those hunter gatherer instincts to hoard resources to have more whatever, but they generally do so both within the confines of staying within their "poor cultures" and with fantasizing about being some kind of celebrity (musician, sports star, or other kind of celebrity) who doesn't have to acclimatize to a higher rung of social culture and so they can retain their culture while still attaining wealth.

Middle class culture is by nature a grasping culture where they value both the virtue of rising above one's station by becoming a pure professional who denounces any cultural traits that might associate one with being of the lower classes and praises becoming a responsible middle management type, but also value retaining a heads down, no nonsense ambition that rejects upper class degeneracy even while embracing certain excesses to show that one is capable of existing in the upper class (suits and ties, expensive watches, BMWs, etc).

It's all grasping for more than you have while remaining complacent in the culture you were born into because it's what you know and are comfortable with.
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Originally Posted by J.R.R. Tolkien
There is only one bright spot and that is the growing habit of disgruntled men of dynamiting factories and power-stations; I hope that, encouraged now as ‘patriotism’, may remain a habit! But it won’t do any good, if it is not universal.
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Old 04-24-2020, 03:32 PM   #22286 (permalink)
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It's largely aspirational yes but aspiration is actually the opposite of complacency. Most people don't rise in the ranks because they can't, not because they don't want to.
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Old 04-24-2020, 03:46 PM   #22287 (permalink)
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Complacency is part of why they can't. I suppose if you believe in true, Biblical free will then you can't reconcile complacency in one's culture with an inability to remove oneself from it (to say nothing of exploitation by upper classes to keep lower classes subserviant of course but I'm not really talking specifically about that atm) but one's culture is kinda like a magnet that keeps you wanting to be like and be around the people who you've been around your whole life.

You shouldn't have to extricate yourself from your redneck, white trash heritage and become some grasping middle class drone though just to not live in poverty. Society certainly heavily implies that you should and makes sure you'll stay poor if you don't (baring a Nashville record contract of course) but that's why heads should be on pikes.
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Originally Posted by J.R.R. Tolkien
There is only one bright spot and that is the growing habit of disgruntled men of dynamiting factories and power-stations; I hope that, encouraged now as ‘patriotism’, may remain a habit! But it won’t do any good, if it is not universal.
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Old 04-24-2020, 03:49 PM   #22288 (permalink)
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I don't think free will is necessary. In a tiered class based economic system it necessarily follows that some will stay on the bottom rung whether they are complacent or not. It's impossible for everyone to be on the top of the pyramid.
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Old 04-24-2020, 04:05 PM   #22289 (permalink)
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I don't think free will is necessary. In a tiered class based economic system it necessarily follows that some will stay on the bottom rung whether they are complacent or not. It's impossible for everyone to be on the top of the pyramid.
Yes, obviously. It's baked into capitalism. But cultures based on economics, race, history, geography (rural, urban, just where the **** you are in general), etc are going to keep people in those cultures simply because people are used to being in those cultures and often aren't comfortable leaving those cultures even if those cultures aren't as economically advantaged as they might want. If you're a poor redneck living in Bum****, Arkansas you might not feel comfortable leaving your Bum****, Arkansas roots to enter into upper middle class Manhattan life even if you are ultimately capable of doing so, and vice versa.
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Originally Posted by J.R.R. Tolkien
There is only one bright spot and that is the growing habit of disgruntled men of dynamiting factories and power-stations; I hope that, encouraged now as ‘patriotism’, may remain a habit! But it won’t do any good, if it is not universal.
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Old 04-24-2020, 04:10 PM   #22290 (permalink)
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Everywhere is golden if you’re rich. You can be as bum**** as you want in the trendiest neighborhood on earth as long as you have money you’ll be made to feel right at home. Money talks.
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