And you even provided the numbers that prove you’re wrong.

The reason is that they/we find your reasoning to be highly flawed. Hope that clears things up.

But you are being comically and conveniently stupid about statistics.

No, I cited the CNN Business statistics to show that out of the millions who are not part of the workforce, a big chunk aren't part of this discussion because they're already retired or in job training or cited Other (which means their situation isn't documented or listed with those reasons). That isn't 160 million people out of the workforce or below minimum wage. And certainly nowhere near the 42% you kept bringing up.

"Capitalism works for the majority and we should continue to refine it to improve it for more people" isn't highly flawed reasoning when you look at the actual state of play. There's a **** ton of change going on in the world. They can disagree if they want, but there's no reason to get mad about it.

Did you though?

Well, regardless of the outcome, I enjoy debating things with all of you. Let the good times roll in. :beer:

Translation:

Well, regardless of the outcome, I enjoy debating things with all of you. Let the good times roll in.

https://media.giphy.com/media/qIbylntkMJB6w/giphy.gif

You only said that after backlash to your continued efforts to downplay the significance of the issues that everyone here is pointing out. Repeatedly saying that the negatives only impact a small portion of people but is GREAT for everyone else makes it sound like you're more interested in preserving the current model than refining it. You should reconsider your debate tactics if your tangential backtracking was the crux of your argument this whole time.

That may be true but consider this: the people who aren't exploited get super rich! Isn't that awesome?

When people go back and forth and present their own ideas, that's an opportunity to explain what you want to say in greater detail or elaborate on some aspect of it. I mean, I literally said these things pages ago way earlier in this discussion


So I don't know how you think I don't think the current system needs refining. I've only said it over and over again in different ways.

You must have missed what I said before about automation and reducing scarcity. The "exploitation" aspect of capitalism is going to reach a nice fat 0% as those things take their course. The sheer inevitability of it scares the living hell out of a significant chunk of the .01% because their business models will disintegrate.

that much is definitely true

We're growing in a completely unplanned and haphazard way as a global populous

I feel like this was supposed to be a good dig.

Your vehement attempts to downplay to any criticism of the status quo says a lot more than your empty declarations of support.

*chases tail*

If you don't get it, you're not gonna.

@bat

Based on what?

Just like the cotton gin!

You guys make the same criticisms over and over again and then when I bring up what's going on with lab tech and growing food you scoff like there's no value to it.

I’ve been steady saying that in the long run $15 or less per hour will not keep a person in America well fed, comfortably sheltered, clothed, and able afford a car and health care.

Here’s three sources that support my claim that 42% of American workers fall into this category:

https://www.nelp.org/wp-content/uplo...15-Dollars.pdf

https://fortune.com/2015/04/13/who-makes-15-per-hour/

http://civilrightsdocs.info/pdf/repo...re-Minimum.pdf

I agree that the minimum wage (based on what was cited by the BLS) should be raised significantly because it would reduce that 2.3 - 5% close to zero and would also reduce the big chunk of people lost somewhere in that No Man's Land trying to find better entry level positions into the workforce. There are a lot of other benefits too, but those are two major ones right out of the gate.

Inflation has a lot of weird details too, but that's a different type of discussion.

I just don't have that kind of faith. Technology has been touted as the eliminator of jobs and ticket out of oppression for millennia, but time and time again, society simply adapts to the climate. I also don't trust that this technology will do anything to eliminate the wealth gap. ****, I don't even think it's going to impact the price of food.

It just seemed like a sly dig that was supposed to be cutting.

Using a lot of words to say nothing.

Still somehow disavowing all of that nothing.

So you don't want a federally mandated higher minimum wage? Let's say it was 25 instead of the suggested 15 an hour. The whole reason your current wage isn't good enough is because inflation has a nasty effect on the overall cost of living. It would go a lot further under other circumstances.

If inflation and the rising cost of goods/services weren't in the picture at all, then the minimum wages set decades ago would still allow someone to basically live a middle class lifestyle, right?

yeh not sure how you got that

I was being serious.

https://www-m.cnn.com/2019/09/21/afr...rnd/index.html

American drowns after proposing to his girlfriend underwater in Tanzania

Yikes.

Sounds like he dodged a bullet.

Correct, which is why I said it really needs it's own discussion separate from the stats we were going over as well as the minimum wage itself.

https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/6-y...fter-incident/

Florida police officer fired after arresting pair of 6-year-olds

100% siding with the cop here. I don’t care what the article says.

Vivisect the little bastards!

Hey Macarthur Grant, nice taste. Excited to see if any particularly ambitious projects come out of this.

Mary Halvorson Wins 2019 MacArthur Foundation “Genius” Grant

Nice. I’ve been intermittently reading a book on free jazz from the 60’s recently and was surprised to learn how important private grants and university and government funding were to the genre. Cecil Taylor, Mingus, Art Ensemble of Chicago for example - according to this book - they survived more on financing by subsidies to the “black arts” than by gigging, touring, and record sales.

I definitely think Halvorson is a fantastic choice, the perfect choice even, and we’re going to get some great ****ing music out of it.

This isn’t jazz but I wrote about this on Freak Fighter because these avant garde composers really did need those sweetheart tenured profs jobs.

https://www.musicbanter.com/2064349-post1026.html
https://www.musicbanter.com/2064350-post1027.html

Wuorinen may come across as an entitled child by our standards but none-the-less his music needed to exist.

"Jazz is the music of unemployment."

- Frank Zappa

dems trying to get trump nudes is my favorite conspiracy of 2019

They didn't want to see him nude but him and Ivanka are a package deal.

Marvel and Sony reach deal to keep Spider-Man in the MCU


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... And another one

Luckily the deer didn't cause any permanent damage.

Haircut for a buck.

Breaking and antler-ing is against the law.