The big names are in the past because of improvements in forensic and investigation methods. You've seen CSI. The mass shooter phenomena exploded post-Columbine because the Columbine shooters were made into antiheros, basically. Combine that with an unperturbed gun fetishism increasing access to weapons, widespread disillusionment, and the increase in mental illness that our healthcare system hasn't caught up with yet and you have a mass shooter epidemic.

That makes me think... At the shelter there's an incinerator

Godspeed.

I agree about the Columbine thing and how it was recieved though

My gut instinct would be that we shouldn't publicize the killers motives or story at all. And just shoot them on the spot so there's no trial.

Yes, there are disgruntled people everywhere. I think these are a couple of factors that make the US particularly prone to mass shootings:-
i) people may be poor, but have just enough money to live in isolation. In India, where one family may all live in one room, it's difficult to hide a weapon and plot your shooting spree.
ii) people have the materialistic good life thrust in their face like a recrimination every time they turn on the tv
iii) access to and no. of guns per capita puts the US in a league of it's own

To play devil's advocate guns are very prevalent and poverty is even more prevalent in many parts of the third world

Yet you look at a country like el Salvador... Massive amounts of gang violence.. but how many random mass shootings?

The shooters in the US aren't the most down trodden... They're spoiled white boys with poor social skills and extremist ideas.

If you don't count Chicago, then you're right.

But for what ever reason we don't count Chicago mass shootings. Almost as if this country just doesn't care when black people die.

When I think of El Salvador, I think of a culture of built on the idea of self-reliance culminating in consumerist class warfare.

We count the church shooting in SC where ah the victims were black

Cause random mass shootings are a different phenomenon from gang shootings

And El Salvador and other countries definitely have us beat in the gang violence per capita dept

Then you recognize how dishonest it is to compare one country's mass shootings to another's gang violence.

Instead of always being facetious just say what your point is so I don't misinterpret you.

I mean the black people aren't the ones blowing away people so they aren't really part of the equation.

It's the white people we have to account for.

Your devil's advocate example sucks.

I wasn't doing that...I was pointing out that both poverty and access to guns exist in countries like that and the only main result is gang violence instead of random mass shootings

why?

That's a comparison :bonkhead:

I already told you :bonkhead:

It's not a comparison of gang violence to mass shootings... It's a comparison of different countries and the kind if conditions/results they have.. which inherent to the discussion at hand.

We also have a relatively serious gang violence problem in the US.. in fact imo it's much worse than the mass shootings.

jwb making his case like

https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/...09/525/70a.png

:laughing: .... You get lazier and lazier with your nonsense

^ Seems like a good point to me: two countries with high levels of violence, but the motivations/type of violence are so different. I don't really know why, but I suppose the differences have grown out of the different cultures: as you say some extremist ideas knocking around in the USA, (which I have never heard mentioned in Mexico, for example) plus in Latin America the stranglehold drug cartels have in so many areas. In the US, if you're a sociopath yearning for violence, you might find yourself shunned, but in Latin America, it'll get you a job in your local cartel.

I agree.. and if you're not a sociopath they still might recruit you at age 10 and turn you into one

Like I said we still have the same thing regarding gangs in the US to a lesser degree... But it mostly affects kids in the hood

Most of the shooters are white kids from middle class backgrounds

I just recognize how much of your time that you're willing to waste when someone's willing to take you up on it and would rather leave my (and your) points in their original, more concise form. Beats dragging them out for several pages across several tangents and shotgun argument tactics like this is a competition as opposed to a constructive discussion.

Anyways, afaic the gun fetishism in the states is unmatched and is definitely one of many factors in the recent wave of mass shootings.

In the interest of saving time you misinterpreted my stance and then doubled down on it after I tried to clarify

Pretty typical tbh

It didn't need clarification and I still hold to my original post. Thank you for participating.

You're welcome.

I agree that guns play an important role in shootings. Ground breaking stuff.

I think the difference between the US and El Salvador is simple: in the US these people get the idea that their failures are the fault of society and that things are unfair, see Lisna's TV argument. In El Salvador things work in such a way that gangs/joining in gun violence is a sort of career, a future I guess (at least they see it that way?) . In the US for these white kids it's a last desperate step.
Accessibility of guns obviously causes more gun violence: as people pointed out, it just takes different forms

And we have both forms in the US.

I don't really see some of these shooters as victims of society. To the extent that's how they set themselves it's usually just a delusional pity party on their part.

Look at that incel in Cali who did the shooting cause he felt rejected by women years back. He was rich, good looking, relatively intelligent. If he had thicker skin and a better personality he could've done pretty good for himself with women. But instead it's poor me nobody will ever love me nonsense. What a spoiled little c*nt.

Depends on the shooter. Not all mass shootings are the same. You have angry nerds, you have angry incels, then you have angry bigots.

His motive sure as **** ain't valid (none of them are, really), but numerous cases of delusional and violent people willing to commit these atrocities doesn't exactly suggest a victory on society's part imo.

^exactly

I would agree I just don't know what the source is

It's obviously something cultural where a certain portion of mostly young white men want to have their Columbine moment. But what do we as a society do to stop that beyond banning guns?

I mean banning guns would be the most effective approach, but two things that come to mind are mental health discussions less tabboo (on our way but still far off) and improving community connectedness to put a damper on antisocial behaviour and isolation. I also think that wealth inequality and a corrupt and unsustainable government are both making the future seem bleak for a lot of young people who aren't born into the 1%. Contest the validity of that all you want, but perception is real. A revolution seems like the only answer to that though.

Circling back to my point about the coverage of the Columbine shooters creating copycats (called the contagion effect by Malcolm Hackwell to push the convo away from guns), I think that that precedent of obsessing over their motives and lives was set by the Unabomber manifesto (even though he's a hero and a genius).

Iran-backed militia Hashed al-Shaabi breach US Embassy in Baghdad, Trump says Iran will be held 'fully responsible'

Countries are being held accountable for the actions of the groups that they're arming now? We're pretty ****ed if that precedent is set. We even have oil, it's over.

I agree the future seems bleak for a lot of people... And I agree wealth inequality causes problems.. but the demo that the shooters come from is largely privileged middle and upper class white guys... I feel like the Columbine copycat thing is real too.. some people might use it dishonestly to deflect from the gun issue but I'm not doing that. I agree guns should be banned.

But we had the guns to pull off these shootings for a long time before Columbine. I can't help but think the notoriety and infamy that comes along with being a shooter isn't one of the main motivating factors.

War with Iran right before the election is so ****ing predictable.

Democracy!

We have a middle class? I thought that was just a marketing campaign.

It's one of them for sure but the whole "we always had guns" argument doesn't really mean much imo. Guns were never a beneficial addition to society and delivered a rotating set of problems, but it took the perfect storm of several factors on top of it to create a mass shooting trend.

that's a very middle class thing to say



I wasn't defending guns just saying we had the capacity for this sort of thing to happen for a long time. It just wasn't a relavent cultural trend.

Ja I was speaking generally. I don't disagree with the fact that Columbine introducing the idea led to the copycats, but it came with a number of other cultural trends that don't exactly give the past the same capacity for shootings.

Do you think the media should quit giving us all the details of every shooting and their motive/backstory?

It wouldn't be as much of an issue without a 24 hour news cycle I think, but I think that reporting on the details without releasing information about the killer could curb the issue slightly. Kind of too late for that now though.