This I Believe There is / is not a God

Guybrush · 02-11-2011, 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maccabbe

Animal procreation is an act of instinct, there are no ceremonies, marriages, commitments, these are just physical impulses, largely attributed to the instinct to survive, both on an individual and on the entire specie basis.

As to humans, the notion that humans evolved from an ape, or from a fish as some others suggest is erroneous in the most fundamental way.

The main reason is that the assumption is wrong to begin with, why should we believe that he is an evolutionary creature? Because some choose not to believe in God, and therefore they want to explain all creation through an evolutionary process that took billions of years?

Yes, some in the scientific community chose not to believe in God, even though there is no evidence to suggest that God doesn’t exist, furthermore, it is not the business or duty of science to become theologians and to preach to all of humanity to forget about God.

If some scientists choose not to believe, then that’s there choice, but they have no right to formulate unfounded and unproven ‘theories’ that try to brainwash humanity on a grand scale believing that these ‘theories’ are facts. But they are not facts, the word ‘Theory’ is not ‘fact’ its speculation and hypothesis, but not logical irrefutable evidence.

You clearly don't know what science is; it's methodology, it's ideals or even it's terminology.

Theory in scientific terminology means a theoretical construct which you construct and support over time through scientific methodology; empirical testing. That it is called the "theory of evolution" is not because it's a mere theory like you might have a theory that a certain kind of aliens exist on a distant planet. That's a misconception by those who don't know science. There is also a theory of gravity, but that doesn't mean that whether or not you'll fall down if you jump up is based on mere speculation. In the same way, evolution is observable in many practical ways. We can observe how species (f.ex humans) are able to change even from one generation to the next and we can see and measure how such a change may be directional over time, f.ex through the amplification of a trait. Museums also keep specimens of animals and as someone working in one, I could f.ex go measure the size of squirrels and compare the average size of these squirrels today to the average size of squirrels 50 years ago. Evolution is not some abstract mythical concept; it's there, just like gravity is. Since Darwin formulated his theory of evolution, there's been over hundred years of science with thousands upon thousands of studies adding to it. You simply can't knock that over because it's called a "theory". All scientific truths are. The reason you don't believe in evolution is part, I'm sure, because you don't even know what it is.

And you also seem to think that science is against religion. It's not, but it's aimed towards discovering the truth; the truth which can be tested to be true. If you feel science is anti-religious, it's because the universe with it's laws as we know it and continue to discover it is not consistent with your religious beliefs. Science builds upon a principle of parsimony which is a way of building up an understanding of how we think the world works while trying to make as few wrong assumptions as possible. Today, God doesn't fit well into any scientific theory, but if he/she/it really exists, then it's science's goal to discover and describe God as such in the future.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maccabe

Our entire life on this planet rests on one thing, the distance of the sun from our planet. Any change in that distance will either freeze us or burn us, what are the odds that this distance was so perfect accidentally to enable life on this planet?

Zero.

There are no chances with things like that, there is only will, purpose, and that creates meaning.

Actually, the distance from the sun is not always the same through the year and changes over time and how much solar radiation we are exposed to also changes with sun activity. The reason it seems so perfect here is because life on this planet evolves to fit the ever-changing conditions that were and are. Let's say the planet moves further away from the sun and it gets much colder. Some animals which are adapted to cold may be able to survive by adapting and radiating down towards the equator where climate is more similar to the kind you'd previously find on higher latitudes. Should it become too cold for advanced lifeforms to survive on the face of our planet, life would likely continue to thrive for example in the underwater vent communities where geothermal vents heat up the water and where energy is gotten from chemical reactions rather than sunlight.

If this is perfect by design, why is the antarctic basically uninhabitable? Shouldn't that have a nicer temperature like other landmasses?

The belief that sunlight is needed for life has been proven wrong by the existence of vent underwater communities as well as other things, so there you go.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maccabbe

The will is from The Master Creator, the purpose is to have life in this world, with the emphasis to the Human Race, the highest of all creations, and the meaning is to follow God’s plan and instruction in this world. We are not here for no purpose, every intelligent design that we human beings posses, like cell phones, computers, calculators, watches, ovens, airplanes, cars and so on, were designed by intelligent people for a specific purpose. All these human creations pale in comparison to the greatest creation in the universe, the human being, pure genius on the highest level, how can anyone claim that he wasn’t created by a master designer and creator, and how can anyone suggest that this creation has no purpose.

For without God in our lives, there is no purpose.

And please don’t think of science so greatly, science is still very very very primitive in our understanding of our planet, its great wisdom, and its great secrets that are hidden within nature, let alone the entire Galaxy that we are situated in , and let alone the entire universe that we live in.

The scientists are sitting on planet earth and they think that they have all the answers in the world about the secrets of existence, so it would be proper to be a little humble and accept that there is way more that science doesn’t know , then what it knows.

At least the scientists you claim think have all the answers haven't been idle; these are people working to try and uncover how the universe works, adding their studies and results to a greater whole; a greater understanding of our universe. You seem to think scientists should be more humble as to what they think of as truth, but actually they (we) are humble in regards to truth. I can tell you that based on my own experience as a newly educated scientist. It takes a lot of quality control and testing before anything can be concluded to be scientifically true. On the other hand, where is religion's testing of truth? You have some pretty bombastic claims here about how we were created and what our purpose is, where is your quality control? Where is your humility?

Scientists, far from being brainwashed, question science all the time. You, however, don't apply critical thinking to what you believe in. How often do you question religion and how do you determine what's true or not? You're the one who's been brainwashed here, mister.

s_k · 02-11-2011, 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maccabbe

Now I have arrived at this conclusion after been exposed to information that many people all around the world were not exposed to.

This sounds interesting.
So, what have you experienced that made you so sure that there is a god?

The Batlord · 02-11-2011, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maccabbe

Without a question or doubt, I completely believe in the existence of God.

So right off the bat, I have to assume that there will be absolutely no talking to you. You have just claimed that you have no question or doubt about the existence of god, so what am I going to say that can make any difference? If you want to think like that, go ahead, but it's rather odd to go into a discussion with that kind of attitude.

Quote:

Now I have arrived at this conclusion after been exposed to information that many people all around the world were not exposed to.

Such as? All you've posted is nothing that I haven't heard before.

Quote:

Many unfortunately were exposed to scientific theories that try to deny his existence, and they have bought into the Darwinian idea that somehow we humans and everything that we see around us, were sprung up out of utter emptiness and for no purpose.

Off to a good start so far. You have just failed to see the difference between evolution and spontaneous biogenesis (the idea that life spawned from non-biological sources). Or you actually don't see a difference between evolution and the big bang theory, which would be rather astounding.

Quote:

I refuse to see my existence in this world as a meaningless phenomenon, were I live a certain frame of time in this universe, and then I return to the elements that my physical body is made of.

You refuse? I hope you have a better reason for believing in an all powerful supernatural being that controls the universe and everything in it for reasons that remain unknown than, "cause I wanna".

Quote:

I feel within myself something that is not only physical, but completely spiritual. Animals on the other hand, never have these kinds of thoughts. They don't contemplate about spiritual things, they don’t search for meaning, spiritual fulfillment or spiritual enjoyment, what drives them is their physical bodily instincts that are aimed at one thing, survival.

Really? What studies can you show us that support this little theory or yours?

Quote:

Humans are completely the opposite, yes we do want to survive physically, but we seek recognition, appreciation, gratitude, and personal relationships.

All of which make it possible for humans to coexist in a society (or herd if you will). I don't see why that means that we simply must come from a god.

Quote:

Alexander the Great, for example was a young warrior from Macedonia, his lived a short life, but his actions were world famous and vast. His entire objective was 'how history will remember me'?

His actions were designed for heroism and the immortality of his name. What kind of an animal cares about what other animals will think or say or remember it? the only motivation it has, is physical survival, it lacks that human soul that puts a staggering difference between the Human and the animal.

So remembrance of name and accomplishments is solely a human character and ambition, and this urge can never be out of any animalistic instincts, but its root is from the spiritual soul that is eternal.

Indeed? So animals procreating to spread their genes to later generations and competing for mates to decide just which genes will be spread has nothing at all in common with Alexander trying to spread his name through history?

Quote:

We have a clear record, every single civilization in history that didn’t adhere to the Voice of Sinai, and ignored God’s message, were eventually destroyed, such examples are Greece, Babylon, Persia and Rome.
These ancient kingdoms were all pagans, who believed in idols made of stone and wood, they ignored God and his message, and they created their own many gods void of anything divine, and serving only their selfish needs, and not God.

So the Christian Byzantine Empire and the Holy Roman Empire are still around?

Sorry for ignoring the part of your post about Solomon and the Torah and what not, but I don't really appreciate being preached at.

RVCA · 02-11-2011, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janszoon

Nice job avoiding the questions.

Lucky, he didn't even address me

~~Maccabbe~~ · 02-11-2011, 11:22 AM

In Response to Tore and S K...

Any rational thinking human being that has some idea about science knows that the entire motif behind Darwin's studies are speculative. There is absolutely no single shred of factual evidence to support that the world created itself out of emptiness, and that humans some how 'evolved'.

This is all speculation, and there is no 'Theory of Gravitation' the Talmud written 2000 years ago already mentions the Power of gravitation, so there is no reason to speculate about it, it exists.

And 'Theory of evolution' hands on one single method which is called 'extrapolation' the weakest form of evaluating something, because you can't take 150 years of study and dating, and spread your findings over 15 billion years.

No one knows how the universe functioned back then and no one even knows how 'Time' functioned' So the weak method of extrapolation cant be used to come to definitive conclusions about the date of our universe or about the function of time.

On top of that, even the scientists themselves cant agree on things, some claim its billions, some claim its millions, and some scientists completely reject the notion of an evolution, and openly say that this universe must of had a Master Creator, because the Odds are just astronomical for it to pop out of the blue.

As to the sun, ofcourse its not exactly perfect, for many reasons, but someone behind is pulling the strings so that we may live and exist, a small substential change can destroy all life as we know it.

Creationist Scientists:

A favorite ploy of evolutionists is to portray all Creation Scientists as pseudo-scientists. In fact, some of the leading scientists in their fields are creation scientists. This page contains a small sampling of scientists who are recognized by their secular peers and others as being among the very best in their fields, or who have outstanding academic achievements. As time permits, more names will be added. Remember these scientists the next time an evolutionist tries to claim that no serious scientists are young earth creationists!

Dr Raymond V. Damadian - Inventor of the MRI (magnetic resonance imaging)
Dr Raymond V. Damadian would probably be too humble to accept the title 'super-scientist' but the many people whose lives have been saved by the MRI (magnetic resonance imaging) scanning technology he developed might think otherwise. Hailed as one of the greatest diagnostic breakthroughs ever, this technique, using advanced principles of physics and computing, lets doctors visualize many organs and their diseased parts without the risks of exploratory surgery or the radiation associated with traditional scanning methods. See Super-scientist slams society’s spiritual sickness!.

Dr. John R. Baumgardner (Geophysicist)

U.S. News & World Report (June 16, 1997) devoted a respectful four-page article to the work of Dr John Baumgardner, calling him "the world's pre-eminent expert in the design of computer models for geophysical convection." Dr. Baumgardner earned degrees from Texas Tech University (B.S., electrical engineering), and Princeton University (M.S., electrical engineering), and earned a Ph.D. in geophysics and space physics from UCLA. Since 1984 he has been employed as a technical staff member at Los Alamos (New Mexico) National Laboratory. Also see Scientists Who Believe: An Interview with Dr. John Baumgardner, and Probing the Earth's Deep Places.

Dr Ian Macreadie (Molecular Biologist and Microbiologist)
Author of more than 60 research papers, he is a Principal Research Scientist at the Biomolecular Research Institute of Australia’s Commonwealth Scientific and Industrial Research Organization (CSIRO), and national secretary of the Australian Society for Biochemistry and Molecular Biology. In 1997 he was part of a team which won the CSIRO’s top prize, the Chairman’s Medal. In 1995 he won the Australian Society for Microbiology’s top award, for outstanding contributions to research. See Interview with Dr Ian Macreadie.

Dr. Raymond Jones (Agricultural Scientist)
This, combined with Dr Jones' other achievements in improving the productivity of the tropical grazing industries, caused CSIRO chief Dr Elizabeth Heij to describe him as ‘one of the top few CSIRO scientists in Australia’. Among the awards he has received are the CSIRO Gold Medal for Research Excellence, and the Urrbrae Award, the latter in recognition of the practical significance of his work for the grazing industry. See Interview with Dr. Raymond Jones.

Dr. A.E. Wilder-Smith (3 Doctorates and a 3-star NATO General)
The late Dr. Arthur E.Wilder-Smith, an honored scientist with an amazing three earned doctorates. He held many distinguished positions. A former Evolutionist, Dr. Wilder-Smith debated various leading scientists on the subject throughout the world. In his opinion, the Evolution model did not fit as well with the established facts of science as did the Creation model of intelligent design. His background is referenced in footnote #4 at Do real scientists believe in Creation? - ChristianAnswers.Net.

Dr. Robert Gentry (nuclear physicist)
Dr. Robert V. Gentry is a nuclear physicist who worked 13 years for the Oakridge National Laboratory as a guest scientist. During the time he worked there, he was recognized as the world's leading authority in his area of research. It is interesting to note that when he began his research, he was an evolutionist. Today, Dr. Gentry is a fully convinced young earth creation scientist.

Emeritus Professor Tyndale John Rendle-Short - From (theistic) evolution to creation
For Prof himself, educated at Cambridge and brought up with his father's writings, theistic evolution (or its variant, progressive creationism) was the natural direction for him to take. His odyssey to being chairman of one of the most effective creation science outreach ministries in the world was overseen by the Lord's hand in countless ways, both large and small.

Charlie Lieberts - (Chemist)
Charlie Liebert’s idea of a good time back in New Jersey was to drink beer with a bunch of buddies and mock Billy Graham on television. A self-described “atheistic evolutionist,” Liebert would ridicule the fact that he and his friends were “sinners.”

Dr. Gary Parker (Biologist)
"I was very consciously trying to get students to bend their religious beliefs to evolution."

"Evolution was really my religion, a faith commitment and a complete world-and-life view that organized everything else for me, and I got quite emotional when evolution was challenged." Dr. Gary Parker's testimony as to how he went from teaching evolution at the college level to being a leading spokesman for Biblical creationism. - See the full story at From Evolution to Creation: A Personal Testimony

Dr. D. Russell Humphreys (Physicist)
While neither of the two links we have for Dr. Humphreys states that he was a former evolutionists and atheist, we know this to be true from a 1999 debate he participated in at Harvard University in which he stated these things. See this interview with Dr. Humphreys at: Creation in the Physics Lab.

Dr. Alan Galbraith (Watershed Science)
"I attended a creation seminar arranged by my pastor. I had only been a Christian for some four years or so, and was still a convinced evolutionist. I have to admit that I went with the attitude — what can this pastor, whose last science course was probably in junior high school, tell me about the area I know so much about?" See Recovery from evolution (Alan Galbraith interview)

Dr. Donald Batten (Agriculturist)
As a young Christian in boarding high school I naively thought that 'science was facts' and tried to believe in evolution and the Bible by accepting the notion that 'God used evolution', days-are-ages, 'progressive creation', etc.

Dr. David Catchpoole (Plant Physiologist)
Until his mid-20s, David was an ardent evolutionistic atheist, but a personal crisis while working in Indonesia brought him to embrace Christianity. However, for a decade he struggled to reconcile popular evolutionary beliefs with the Bible...

Dr. A.E. Wilder-Smith (3 Doctorates and a NATO 3-star General)
The late Dr. Arthur E.Wilder-Smith, an honored scientist with an amazing three earned doctorates. He held many distinguished positions. A former Evolutionist, Dr. Wilder-Smith debated various leading scientists on the subject throughout the world. In his opinion, the Evolution model did not fit as well with the established facts of science as did the Creation model of intelligent design. His background is referenced in footnote #4 at Do real scientists believe in Creation? - ChristianAnswers.Net.

Dr. Robert V. Gentry - (Physicist)

Gerald Schroeder Phd.

Schroeder received his BSc in 1959, his MSc in 1961, and his Ph.D. in nuclear physics and earth and planetary sciences in 1965, from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT).[2] He worked five years on the staff of the MIT physics department. He was a member of the United States Atomic Energy Commission.

And the list goes on and on...

But when it comes to the Torah, no speculation, and no 'Maybe' the Jews know how the world was created this information was given to them by God himself. There are over 50.000 books written about the Torah, a good number of them deal and discuss about the matters of Creation and its secrets, this wisdom is called Kabbalah.

And even without all these books, it is logically locked and obvious that this universe must have been envisioned in the mind of a Master Creator, and set to motion into reality by him.

The mind cant bare any other alternative.

s_k · 02-11-2011, 11:28 AM

I scanned that text a bit and I don't believe there's an answer to my question in there:

Quote:

Originally Posted by s_k

This sounds interesting.
So, what have you experienced that made you so sure that there is a god?

Please don't bring me theories. I am very interested in the thing that happened to you personally that made you believe in god.
I am absolutely serious, but I want an answer to that question, no filosofical speculations please

~~Maccabbe~~ · 02-11-2011, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by s_k

I scanned that text a bit and I don't believe there's an answer to my question in there:

Please don't bring me theories. I am very interested in the thing that happened to you personally that made you believe in god.
I am absolutely serious, but I want an answer to that question, no filosofical speculations please

I said :

And the list goes on and on...

But when it comes to the Torah, no speculation, and no 'Maybe' the Jews know how the world was created this information was given to them by God himself. There are over 50.000 books written about the Torah, a good number of them deal and discuss about the matters of Creation and its secrets, this wisdom is called Kabbalah.

And even without all these books, it is logically locked and obvious that this universe must have been envisioned in the mind of a Master Creator, and set to motion into reality by him.

The mind cant bare any other alternative.

Been exposed to books of wisdom and information that others might not have been exposed to.

And of course common sense and logic.

The Batlord · 02-11-2011, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maccabbe

Been exposed to books of wisdom and information that others might not have been exposed to.

And of course common sense and logic.

What books? If you're going to just keep spouting nonsense and claiming that you have knowledge from some unknown source that you are unwilling to divulge, I am going to assume that you are being a disingenuous preacher.

s_k · 02-11-2011, 11:38 AM

@ Maccabe

Ah, you've bene exposed to more speculation.
I thought you had actually ran into something in your life that meant something.
Sorry dude, we're done. But please enjoy your religion.
I'll just stick to the things I can see.
You're just comparing one theory with another. What if both are wrong?
Tore, Janszoon, this one is for you lot

RVCA · 02-11-2011, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maccabbe

There are over 50.000 books written about the Torah, a good number of them deal and discuss about the matters of Creation and its secrets, this wisdom is called Kabbalah.

Kabbalah? Really?

"For Kabbalists, the Torah dressed truth in an earthly garment, and that garment had to be removed to behold spiritual beauty. Behind the God of Hebrew scripture lay En-sof, who had created the material world from ten emanating intelligences called Sefiroth. In a series of correspondences, Kabbalists explained connections between the Sefiroth and different parts of the human body, names for God, and classes of angels. From its beginnings, the Kabbalah blended elements from many different traditions but changed them to give the material a Jewish stamp."

This is the kind of "wisdom and information" you're basing your absolute certainty in God on?

02-11-2011, 11:22 AM	#765 (permalink)
~~Maccabbe~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: New York City Posts: 34	In Response to Tore and S K... Any rational thinking human being that has some idea about science knows that the entire motif behind Darwin's studies are speculative. There is absolutely no single shred of factual evidence to support that the world created itself out of emptiness, and that humans some how 'evolved'. This is all speculation, and there is no 'Theory of Gravitation' the Talmud written 2000 years ago already mentions the Power of gravitation, so there is no reason to speculate about it, it exists. And 'Theory of evolution' hands on one single method which is called 'extrapolation' the weakest form of evaluating something, because you can't take 150 years of study and dating, and spread your findings over 15 billion years. No one knows how the universe functioned back then and no one even knows how 'Time' functioned' So the weak method of extrapolation cant be used to come to definitive conclusions about the date of our universe or about the function of time. On top of that, even the scientists themselves cant agree on things, some claim its billions, some claim its millions, and some scientists completely reject the notion of an evolution, and openly say that this universe must of had a Master Creator, because the Odds are just astronomical for it to pop out of the blue. As to the sun, ofcourse its not exactly perfect, for many reasons, but someone behind is pulling the strings so that we may live and exist, a small substential change can destroy all life as we know it. Creationist Scientists: A favorite ploy of evolutionists is to portray all Creation Scientists as pseudo-scientists. In fact, some of the leading scientists in their fields are creation scientists. This page contains a small sampling of scientists who are recognized by their secular peers and others as being among the very best in their fields, or who have outstanding academic achievements. As time permits, more names will be added. Remember these scientists the next time an evolutionist tries to claim that no serious scientists are young earth creationists! Dr Raymond V. Damadian - Inventor of the MRI (magnetic resonance imaging) Dr Raymond V. Damadian would probably be too humble to accept the title 'super-scientist' but the many people whose lives have been saved by the MRI (magnetic resonance imaging) scanning technology he developed might think otherwise. Hailed as one of the greatest diagnostic breakthroughs ever, this technique, using advanced principles of physics and computing, lets doctors visualize many organs and their diseased parts without the risks of exploratory surgery or the radiation associated with traditional scanning methods. See Super-scientist slams society’s spiritual sickness!. Dr. John R. Baumgardner (Geophysicist) U.S. News & World Report (June 16, 1997) devoted a respectful four-page article to the work of Dr John Baumgardner, calling him "the world's pre-eminent expert in the design of computer models for geophysical convection." Dr. Baumgardner earned degrees from Texas Tech University (B.S., electrical engineering), and Princeton University (M.S., electrical engineering), and earned a Ph.D. in geophysics and space physics from UCLA. Since 1984 he has been employed as a technical staff member at Los Alamos (New Mexico) National Laboratory. Also see Scientists Who Believe: An Interview with Dr. John Baumgardner, and Probing the Earth's Deep Places. Dr Ian Macreadie (Molecular Biologist and Microbiologist) Author of more than 60 research papers, he is a Principal Research Scientist at the Biomolecular Research Institute of Australia’s Commonwealth Scientific and Industrial Research Organization (CSIRO), and national secretary of the Australian Society for Biochemistry and Molecular Biology. In 1997 he was part of a team which won the CSIRO’s top prize, the Chairman’s Medal. In 1995 he won the Australian Society for Microbiology’s top award, for outstanding contributions to research. See Interview with Dr Ian Macreadie. Dr. Raymond Jones (Agricultural Scientist) This, combined with Dr Jones' other achievements in improving the productivity of the tropical grazing industries, caused CSIRO chief Dr Elizabeth Heij to describe him as ‘one of the top few CSIRO scientists in Australia’. Among the awards he has received are the CSIRO Gold Medal for Research Excellence, and the Urrbrae Award, the latter in recognition of the practical significance of his work for the grazing industry. See Interview with Dr. Raymond Jones. Dr. A.E. Wilder-Smith (3 Doctorates and a 3-star NATO General) The late Dr. Arthur E.Wilder-Smith, an honored scientist with an amazing three earned doctorates. He held many distinguished positions. A former Evolutionist, Dr. Wilder-Smith debated various leading scientists on the subject throughout the world. In his opinion, the Evolution model did not fit as well with the established facts of science as did the Creation model of intelligent design. His background is referenced in footnote #4 at Do real scientists believe in Creation? - ChristianAnswers.Net. Dr. Robert Gentry (nuclear physicist) Dr. Robert V. Gentry is a nuclear physicist who worked 13 years for the Oakridge National Laboratory as a guest scientist. During the time he worked there, he was recognized as the world's leading authority in his area of research. It is interesting to note that when he began his research, he was an evolutionist. Today, Dr. Gentry is a fully convinced young earth creation scientist. Emeritus Professor Tyndale John Rendle-Short - From (theistic) evolution to creation For Prof himself, educated at Cambridge and brought up with his father's writings, theistic evolution (or its variant, progressive creationism) was the natural direction for him to take. His odyssey to being chairman of one of the most effective creation science outreach ministries in the world was overseen by the Lord's hand in countless ways, both large and small. Charlie Lieberts - (Chemist) Charlie Liebert’s idea of a good time back in New Jersey was to drink beer with a bunch of buddies and mock Billy Graham on television. A self-described “atheistic evolutionist,” Liebert would ridicule the fact that he and his friends were “sinners.” Dr. Gary Parker (Biologist) "I was very consciously trying to get students to bend their religious beliefs to evolution." "Evolution was really my religion, a faith commitment and a complete world-and-life view that organized everything else for me, and I got quite emotional when evolution was challenged." Dr. Gary Parker's testimony as to how he went from teaching evolution at the college level to being a leading spokesman for Biblical creationism. - See the full story at From Evolution to Creation: A Personal Testimony Dr. D. Russell Humphreys (Physicist) While neither of the two links we have for Dr. Humphreys states that he was a former evolutionists and atheist, we know this to be true from a 1999 debate he participated in at Harvard University in which he stated these things. See this interview with Dr. Humphreys at: Creation in the Physics Lab. Dr. Alan Galbraith (Watershed Science) "I attended a creation seminar arranged by my pastor. I had only been a Christian for some four years or so, and was still a convinced evolutionist. I have to admit that I went with the attitude — what can this pastor, whose last science course was probably in junior high school, tell me about the area I know so much about?" See Recovery from evolution (Alan Galbraith interview) Dr. Donald Batten (Agriculturist) As a young Christian in boarding high school I naively thought that 'science was facts' and tried to believe in evolution and the Bible by accepting the notion that 'God used evolution', days-are-ages, 'progressive creation', etc. Dr. David Catchpoole (Plant Physiologist) Until his mid-20s, David was an ardent evolutionistic atheist, but a personal crisis while working in Indonesia brought him to embrace Christianity. However, for a decade he struggled to reconcile popular evolutionary beliefs with the Bible... Dr. A.E. Wilder-Smith (3 Doctorates and a NATO 3-star General) The late Dr. Arthur E.Wilder-Smith, an honored scientist with an amazing three earned doctorates. He held many distinguished positions. A former Evolutionist, Dr. Wilder-Smith debated various leading scientists on the subject throughout the world. In his opinion, the Evolution model did not fit as well with the established facts of science as did the Creation model of intelligent design. His background is referenced in footnote #4 at Do real scientists believe in Creation? - ChristianAnswers.Net. Dr. Robert V. Gentry - (Physicist) Gerald Schroeder Phd. Schroeder received his BSc in 1959, his MSc in 1961, and his Ph.D. in nuclear physics and earth and planetary sciences in 1965, from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT).[2] He worked five years on the staff of the MIT physics department. He was a member of the United States Atomic Energy Commission. And the list goes on and on... But when it comes to the Torah, no speculation, and no 'Maybe' the Jews know how the world was created this information was given to them by God himself. There are over 50.000 books written about the Torah, a good number of them deal and discuss about the matters of Creation and its secrets, this wisdom is called Kabbalah. And even without all these books, it is logically locked and obvious that this universe must have been envisioned in the mind of a Master Creator, and set to motion into reality by him. The mind cant bare any other alternative. Last edited by Maccabbe; 02-11-2011 at 11:29 AM.

02-11-2011, 11:38 AM	#769 (permalink)
s_k Music Addict Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 2,206	@ Maccabe Ah, you've bene exposed to more speculation. I thought you had actually ran into something in your life that meant something. Sorry dude, we're done. But please enjoy your religion. I'll just stick to the things I can see. You're just comparing one theory with another. What if both are wrong? Tore, Janszoon, this one is for you lot __________________ Click here to see my collection