Stone Birds

well it could be rephrased a bit.
1st: the law stating that energy and mass cannot be created or destroyed.
then my question is where did all the mass and energy that exists in our universe come from. everything in our universe is based off the simple law of cause and effect, so what caused what we have today. some say the big bang but how did that come to be what was before the big bang how did that tiny dense speck come to be before the explosion, what came before the thing before the speck. the problem is that cause and effect in terms of the universe and time is infinite in both directions.

something along the lines of that is basically what i meant, i could way more complex than that but i'm busy setting up a remix contest at the moment.

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Guybrush

Actually, you base this on assumptions which may be incorrect. You assume that the mass and energy in our universe must have been created at some point. Are you really sure that assumption is correct? We don't actually know that much about these things. We have hypotheses. The conditions during the big bang f.ex could change physical laws in ways we don't yet know how. You write that cause and effect is infinite in both directions, and then I assume you mean past and future. What if the big bang is a recurring event which has happened an infinite amount of times in the past and will in the future?

Besides, if you assume that everything must have been created by a creator with an event that started the chain of cause and effect, then you run into a classic paradox. Who created the creator who created everything?

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rondo

Einstein, with the advent of quantum theory was baffled to rethink his own position on whether god really plays dice . He just ran into a paradox after paradox, which of course, makes our neurons just twitch a bit. But I'm with you on the science thingy . It's not that I believe science has the answers to everything. It's just that the knowledge and rewards gained in pursuit of science is very high. The working of a light-bulb for example, is a lot more fascinating than the hocus-pocus stuff of creationist.

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I came to Berlin looking for love and success, but I decided to settle for sex, drugs and rock and roll.

MAStudent

Humans. So egotistical.

No matter what your answer is, it should be followed by,"at least thats what I think."

Who knows where anything came from?

The best we can do is describe as accurately and objectively as possible what we see and experience.

Science once claimed without a doubt the world was flat. One of the gospels has Jesus dying on Saturday, not Friday, in the original language.

Our best scientific guess at this point is that the big bang is a recurring phenomenon. Things pull together so forcefully with gravity that they compress and explode outward. When they finally lose momentum and stop flying away from each other, gravity gradually pulls them together forcefully again. More like a circular (timewise) pendulum than a starting point with consequential reactions.

Any good existentialist knows all of our logic (rational) and evidence gathering (empirical) methods are flawed. We are, after all, only imperfect humans. Creepy monkeys.

However, if in going around the world encountering things and naming them, you run into a force that makes itself known to you, shows you its intention, and repeats itself likewise, you should name it. Wind. Love. Gravity. <God/Eloh(im)/Allah/Dios/un-nameable>

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"i think that's the real issue right there. first they tell us that there's no such thing as a brontosaurus, and then they tell us that pluto isn't a planet. i think after those two let-downs most americans have just decided "frag scientists." "- oops, I forgot who I quoted. adolescent something?

MAStudent

Of course, its easy to give up and agree with that pompous puszy Nietsche that style is everything.

But how much can you really trust the expounding of a guy that was afraid of winter?


"God is dead, and I have killed him"

I think he wrote that right after "Where are my pills? How come I could never get a real woman? What the hell is this caught in my mustache? Where are all the blankets?"

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"i think that's the real issue right there. first they tell us that there's no such thing as a brontosaurus, and then they tell us that pluto isn't a planet. i think after those two let-downs most americans have just decided "frag scientists." "- oops, I forgot who I quoted. adolescent something?

Guybrush

Science never claimed the world was flat. Science is based on scientific methods and criterias like hypothesis testing which wasn't really formulated back then. People didn't believe those things because because they were based on science and so you can't just attribute any non-religious idea people have had about our world in the past to science.

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MAStudent

Science/scientific method/physiology/biology/split tailed t-tests/within one standard deviation/etc once claimed that traction was good for a bone fracture.

Turns out it is the worst thing for a fracture. Bones need stress to respond with bone growth/ healing. So the very attribute that gives science the "higher ground" is the attribute that schould be looked at more closely. Namely, that we go with the best explanation until a better one comes along. If there has been no evidence to date that satisfies you. just say that. Don't try to argue down people who have had evidence that satisfies them.

After all, who really knows? The most accurate thing we can say is that we are just creepy monkeys and our logic and evidence gathering methods are inherently flawed.

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"i think that's the real issue right there. first they tell us that there's no such thing as a brontosaurus, and then they tell us that pluto isn't a planet. i think after those two let-downs most americans have just decided "frag scientists." "- oops, I forgot who I quoted. adolescent something?

RVCA

Unfortunately, "science" never "claims" anything. "Science" develops theories, and the only reason we hold theories to be true is because they have yet to be falsified. Should some physicist discover tomorrow that gravity is not a universal constant (or some crazy thing), "science" would gladly throw everything it's "claimed" about our universe over the last several hundred years out the window.

jordanthornburg

IF any one has a question for a christian BRING ITTTTTT!!!!!! Just kidding but seriously if someone truly wants to know what i think and not attack me ill do my best to honestly answer.....and not force anything on anybody

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I love Jesus