Music Banter - How Real Is Christianity?

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Whatsitoosit (Post 647408)

after my grandmother died in 1985, my brother and I held a little seance in our bedroom. We sat there together with candles lit, lights out and just asked for some form of sign if my grandmother was listening or in the room with us. Sure enough within' 30 seconds or so we heard the cover to a chest we had in the room SLAM shut. This thing had hinges on it and was not easy to close, you had to put some force into it. Anyway... we both jumped up and ran out of the room. We did it again at my other grandmothers house and again, after we asked for a sign we heard something fall and start to move. It was our Verbot (a robot toy from the 80's) that suddenly switched on then fell off the table.

About 5 years later my grandfather fell ill with lung cancer and was dying in our home as being in a hospital wouldn't have done him any good by this point. Anyway, I was sleeping over a friends house (not really thinking about him passing away that weekend or anytime soon). That night I had a dream of my grandfather in a blue suit waving to me. He was in the distance with a bright white light behind him and he just stood there waving. I knew it was him but didn't know why I was dreaming this. When my father picked me up he told me that my grandfather had passed away the night before but they didn't want to tell me because they didn't see the point since I was having fun at my friends house. When I went to the wake my grandfather was in a blue suit... it freaked me out. Later my mother told me she had the very same dream, woke up... went to the bathroom, came out to check on my grandfather, he made a funny sound and died.

I've heard tons of other stories from people that wouldn't lie about that sorta thing... I know there are forces and spirits around us.

maybe so but there are also things called coincidence

Quote:

Originally Posted by pahuuuta (Post 648023)

maybe so but there are also things called coincidence

a 12 year old dreaming of his grandfather (prior to knowing of his death) waving goodbye in the suit (which I've never seen prior) he would be buried in? it's reaching pretty far to say coincidence, but if that helps your argument... sure, coincidence. I don't think so.

Also, twice, things slamming shut or falling on command from calling out the same dead relative could also be a coincidence. Believe it or not, something else is out there and it's easy to not think so... but when it faces you, you'd have to have your head up your butt to not acknowledge it. I'm guessing for those that think it's nonsense it never faced them... I understand that, I wouldn't believe it either.

This I don't expect anybody to believe but the person who told it to me is one of the most honest people I've ever encountered. Him and his friends were playing with a ouija board when they were younger on a very heavy metal table. They eventually asked the spirit they summoned to raise the table and the table began to rise to the point where they all had to stand while keeping there hands on the table. They all looked at each other and said "ok, who's doing this?" but the table was too heavy for somebody to be pretending to lift it. Eventually the table just slammed to the ground and that was the last time they fooled with the ouija board. Think that is a coincidence? I don't.

Before you rely too much on human experience, you should know what humans are capable of in regards to suggestion, placebos etc. We affect ourselves more than you might think. In another thread, I posted a vid where they set up a fake ghost story, then get unkowing mediums to investigate it. One of the mediums actually gets posessed by the fake ghost (named George Bull for "bull****") and actually thinks she has a real "possession" experience.

I don't think it's unlikely at all that people who try out ouija for example feel like they have some kind of paranormal experience. Especially if you throw a little fear into the mix, people can imagine or "suggest" to themselves some rather weird things. Would the ghosts or demons be there when the sun is out and the birds are singing though?

I've also had "paranormal" experiences, but I don't think of them as such. I think it was a mixture of fear and other things leading to mind tricks.

Also, a thing about coincidence is that if you are to take 6 numbers at random between 1 and a million, the chance of getting 1 every time is just as high as getting a sequence of different numbers. Many people don't understand probability and humans have a highly developed ability to make associations where there are none, such as associating the slamming of a door with an unknown presence. Put people in a "ghost house", let the wind close a door - they might believe it was a ghost.

http://www.moonslipper.com/images/ghost07.jpg

OoOoOoOoO

How did we go from god to ghosts?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whatsitoosit (Post 648077)

Believe it or not, something else is out there and it's easy to not think so... but when it faces you, you'd have to have your head up your butt to not acknowledge it. I'm guessing for those that think it's nonsense it never faced them... I understand that, I wouldn't believe it either.

I've been faced by things that I think could possibly be interpreted as supernatural, but I'm still not convinced that they are. I've been in situations where I think people would interpret it as a sign from "God" or some sort of religious, paranormal, supernatural experience, but I don't necessarily see it as such (though I see why people could interpret it in that way). I guess I'm not ruling it out, but we can make ourselves believe anything and I guess I kind of stand in line with this....

Quote:

I've also had "paranormal" experiences, but I don't think of them as such. I think it was a mixture of fear and other things leading to mind tricks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tore (Post 648100)

knowing the nature of the said items that slammed shut and suddenly turned on and fell, it's hard to fathom it was just mind tricks and that would have happened regardless of what we were doing at the time. It has never happened before or after this experience, only during at the very moment we asked it to happen. Sh1t, I wish everything was like that... "send me a million bucks" POOF!!! wow, a million bucks!! must be a coincidence :)

I could have subconsciously dreamed of my grandfather waving goodbye knowing he was dying of cancer... but how do you explain him being in the same suit he would be buried in? a suit I've never seen prior? and being a day after he actually died? did I just happen to be thinking of the color blue at the time and coincidentally he had just died and would be in that suit? again... I need to start playing the lottery now, I have some good mind trick abilities :)

I know the whole ouija board theory has been debunked several times, the table raising story is different then people moving a game piece around the board with there hands.

Quote:

Originally Posted by coryallen2 (Post 648102)

How did we go from god to ghosts?

a similar subject I think.

Since becoming a christian im no longer afraid of death.So its become real for me,and for that reason alone i take more risks and my life is a little out of control at times. Which after all, a spice of life.I cant say i depend on god. Though i feel a sense of friendship if that makes any sense.Im never alone even on the toilet lol.

Quote:

Originally Posted by chard (Post 648183)

Not that I want to criticize your way of life, because I think everyone is entitled to living their life in their own way as long as it doesn't impede on someone elses, but, I think the reality that we're all very much alone and always will be is something we all have to at least consider (and in my opinion, accept) because that's just the way it could be.

Id like to see some modern day miracles, some red sea parting, some water walking, etc....then ask me how real christianity is.

Is there a place like a forest or a beach could be anywhere really that has history a place in which sane people wouldnt tread at night and stay there on your own for 12 hours.I tell you this theres a good chance your see a miracle.Halleluya i believe lol.