How Real Is Christianity?

Yukon Cornelius · 04-03-2009, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SATCHMO

I agree with you completely, but I tend to fall on both sides of the equation.

Basically you either have it or you don't

. If you question it you don't..

That's all there is to it.

sleepy jack · 04-03-2009, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SATCHMO

Now this is the crux of the problem. (And I'm noy directing this at you schredds I'm just using your post to highlight some things)
The aspect of Christianity that surrounds placing your faith in the idea that Christ was any more or less divine or god-created than anyone else is a man-made and borrowed concept.
Fundamentalists and atheists alike put all of their energy into proving and disproving, respectively, the historical accuracy of and biological validity of supernatural events, and in that apologetic process the wisdom that is inherent in the gospels gets swept under the rug, because apparently its not about "loving thy neighbour as you would love yourself" its about how the hell is it possible that mary got knocked up by a deity......its not possible. We try to make it about whether or not Jesus was resurrected from the grave and not about the personal rebirth and transformation that we are all called to to elevate ourselves to our next level of enlightenment. and it's not about whether or not god exists,but whether our lives and society benefit from believing that he or she does.

So whether or not something is false doesn't matter as long as you consider it beneficial to society? Jesus wasn't the greatest moralist of all time - in fact the ancient Greeks contemplated morality far more extensively than the writers of the Bible and hundreds of years before them too. I think there's this tendency in people to treat it like religion and religious figures can lay claim to morality.

I think that some morality is innate in us but for the most part I think are ethical standards are far more societal. As far as reaching some sort of "enlightened" state of mind by following the teachings of Jesus there's no actual proof for that. You could reach a certain level of inner peace with yourself and others but you could just as easily reach that same level of peace by reading Aristotle, Kant, Smith or Kierkegaard. Jesus isn't the only path nor is he necessarily the best path.

I think by accepting faith (and there's no evidence Jesus actually existed so it would be faith, specifically in regards to how he was created) you're setting up a standard that is dangerous. By using religion as your basis for morality you then have to logically respect anyone else you uses religion as the basis for their morality. Meaning you have to except the abuse of woman and terrorist attacks as moral actions; unless you're willing to be a hypocrite or place Jesus was more "right" than Muhammad and there's no basis for that whatsoever.

glutoro · 04-03-2009, 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pahuuuta

well the only people i can think of that doesnt believe jesus to be the son of god is the jews.

Jews have something completely different they believe when it comes to God. They don't believe that Jesus had anything to do with God, let alone be his son or God himself (in human form) therefore they don't really think God/Juses was here on earth at all. I think? I don't know I'm not a Jew.

Kamikazi Kat · 04-03-2009, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tore

SATCHMO, I agree, I think religious teachings and writings (not just christianity) can be immense sources of wisdom and philosophical insights. It's a bit sad to see that so many people don't treat them as such.

Sometimes when a metaphor is taken literally, it often distracts from what the metaphor is actually trying to tell.

Exactly, the bible has some great knowledge. For example, God didn't want Adam and Eve to eat from the tree of knowledge. To me, the idea behind this represents how our intelligence, emotions, and other qualities that we only possess have led to so many bad things.

Personally, I'm not a christian. Its not the bible I'm really against, its people's intepretations of it, its how church's interpret the book for their members and then lay down their intepretations as rules that a "good christian" must follow. If one is going to look to the bible for insightful knowledge, one should do it outside of a church and keep it on a more personal level and not let their minds be controlled by churches. Another main issue I have with religion is how they worship one or a few particular books, instead of keeping their mind open. There isn't anything wrong with reading the bible, what I don't like is somebody only reading the bible, and just the bible, and only listening to the bible. People need to keep their minds open.

**Scarlett O'Hara** · 04-03-2009, 11:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tore

SATCHMO, I agree, I think religious teachings and writings (not just christianity) can be immense sources of wisdom and philosophical insights. It's a bit sad to see that so many people don't treat them as such.

Sometimes when a metaphor is taken literally, it often distracts from what the metaphor is actually trying to tell.

Why is it so damn hard for people to wrap their head around this? It's like people who dislike Christianity use any excuse to make everything seem so literal. Oh and all Christians are bible bashing people that push their religion on everyone else apparently. What a joke.

sleepy jack · 04-03-2009, 11:17 PM

If the Bible is all one giant metaphor then why follow it specifically? Why not go for other ethical philosophy that is more clear cut? If it's for afterlife purposes than how do you know that the Judea-Christian holy book is the right one?

FireInCairo · 04-03-2009, 11:28 PM

One problem I have with the bible, is how it is cherry picked to fit whatever social climate we find ourselves in. How could any one conceive of obeying "god's words"in this day and age? there is a whole chunk of Leviticus devoted to detailed explantaion of how to perform the correct animal sacrafice for your amount and type of sin in order to appease god.

Why is this supreme being so nit picky and vindictive?...a control freak god...why bother?

"There is nothing out there, and I'm ok with that", ismy mantra, sometimes hard but ultimately I feel it to be more honest and therefore worthwhile,as self-denial is very ugly.

**Scarlett O'Hara** · 04-03-2009, 11:30 PM

It could depend on someones background, such as what they were brought up to believe, but it's really down to what you feel is true in your heart. I think there is some element of all religions that have similar moral guidelines that can be applied to further ones spirituality. I think for a lot of religions you have to take some things with a grain of salt. Basically it looks impossible to prove a religion is true, but finding one suits you in particular will be beneficial to your life.

sleepy jack · 04-03-2009, 11:34 PM

Don't you think the ability to be so selective with religions says something about its validity? It's not like all religion are just a different path to heaven (I'm using heaven to refer to whatever the climax of the religion is) or different paths to different heavens but rather that there is one true path to the one true heaven. So if we had some internal compass telling us which one was correct wouldn't everyone be of the same faith? And if it's merely pointing to which religion is right for you personally, then doesn't that have more to do with your own personality and upbringing as opposed to the validity of the religion?

SATCHMO · 04-04-2009, 05:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sleepy jack

Don't you think the ability to be so selective with religions says something about its validity? It's not like all religion are just a different path to heaven (I'm using heaven to refer to whatever the climax of the religion is) or different paths to different heavens but rather that there is one true path to the one true heaven. So if we had some internal compass telling us which one was correct wouldn't everyone be of the same faith? And if it's merely pointing to which religion is right for you personally, then doesn't that have more to do with your own personality and upbringing as opposed to the validity of the religion?

I think that different religions manifest the same universal truths about the nature of transcendental reality in different ways, which is to say that, yes there really is more than one path to "heaven".
Yes a lot of the primary distinctions between religions are cultural and often one's chosen religion is a direct result of one's upbringing, though that's not always the case.
The unfortunate truth about religion is that spiritual truths are often hidden within culturally or mythologically inspired allegory which makes it hard, especially for the average zealot to make the distinction between spiritual truth and the peripheral structure in which that truth is embedded.

04-03-2009, 11:28 PM	#47 (permalink)
FireInCairo Later on... Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Melbourne Posts: 1,235	One problem I have with the bible, is how it is cherry picked to fit whatever social climate we find ourselves in. How could any one conceive of obeying "god's words"in this day and age? there is a whole chunk of Leviticus devoted to detailed explantaion of how to perform the correct animal sacrafice for your amount and type of sin in order to appease god. Why is this supreme being so nit picky and vindictive?...a control freak god...why bother? "There is nothing out there, and I'm ok with that", ismy mantra, sometimes hard but ultimately I feel it to be more honest and therefore worthwhile,as self-denial is very ugly. __________________ O G MUDBONE: Only You can prevent forest fires.

04-03-2009, 11:30 PM	#48 (permalink)
Scarlett O'Hara Make it so Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 6,181	It could depend on someones background, such as what they were brought up to believe, but it's really down to what you feel is true in your heart. I think there is some element of all religions that have similar moral guidelines that can be applied to further ones spirituality. I think for a lot of religions you have to take some things with a grain of salt. Basically it looks impossible to prove a religion is true, but finding one suits you in particular will be beneficial to your life. __________________ "Elph is truly an enfant terrible of the forum, bless and curse him" - Marie, Queen of Thots