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Old 08-05-2009, 02:54 PM   #111 (permalink)
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Why don't we promote "resposibilty"?
Because it isn't the government's business to tell us what lifestyle choices to make and it would be a complete misuse of tax dollars.
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Old 08-05-2009, 08:59 PM   #112 (permalink)
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Is that an argument against socialised health care? Look at this pragmatically; Obama's proposition - is it killing all privatised health care and making it impossible for people to pay for their medication if they so choose? In extreme cases such as Sutent the situation will remain the same in that the rich can afford this specific health care while the poor do not. In an NHS system the fact remains that the poor can still get access to a ****load more good treatment as a result of socialised health care while for the rich it remains much the same with a very slight tax increase.

Also consider this: per capita the French (who have a socialised health service) pays 50% less than the Americans. France has the best health service in the world. America is floating down at around 37. The disparity in cost comes primarily from the risk of lawsuits bumping premiums and meaning doctors will order innumerate tests to cover their asses. Another large cost comes from the fact that it's a largely cornered market where the big business has a stranglehold on setting the price market meaning they can charge lots because people will always need health care and always scrimp those pennies to help themselves to survive. And the other massive cost comes from admin expenses ensuing from an insurance system (something ranging from between 30-45%) whereas the admin costs for Medicare are below 5%. When you give doctors a chance to be doctors, as opposed to lawsuit fearing business men, you can cut out a hell of a lot of the cost involved in your medical system and get significantly better service to boot. Without reform you health system as it stands is eating itself from the inside. If anything Obama isn't going far enough, though whether or not that's his choice or just a hope at getting something actually passed is another question.
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Old 08-05-2009, 10:00 PM   #113 (permalink)
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Is that an argument against socialised health care?
no.
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Old 08-18-2009, 09:36 AM   #114 (permalink)
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What do you think about the Democrats National Healthcare plan? I think it's a bad idea. They'll be longer lines and some people won't be approved for treatment. Why does the Government have to be involved in everything?
From: http://www.musicbanter.com/current-e...ealthcare.html

How would the lines be longer though? Why would you get the Public Option (they seem to be backing away from) if you had private insurance?

The lines may be getting longer with the public option because you likely wouldn't have had insurance before, but the wait sure is getting shorter.
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Old 08-18-2009, 09:45 AM   #115 (permalink)
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They are longer in Canada and the UK. Why wouldn't they be here? Do you think they're going to run it better?
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Old 08-18-2009, 01:09 PM   #116 (permalink)
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Boo hoo hoo. The lines are so long, we're dying while we're waiting!

http://www.who.int/whosis/whostat/EN_WHS09_Full.pdf

Look at part II table 1. Being born in the UK or Canada means I'm expected to live longer and less likely to die during infancy, and also less likely to die below the age of 60. Also look at table 7. In both of these evil socialist systems, not only is the average citizen spending less but also the Government funding these nationalised health services is spending less per person than under the American Government.

Your system is broken and you refuse to see it because rather than look at the cold hard statistics you'd rather be blinkered by the catchword "socialism" and look at inneffective KPIs such as "queue lengths". So we have longer queues? We're still going to live longer.
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Old 08-18-2009, 01:25 PM   #117 (permalink)
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They are longer in Canada and the UK. Why wouldn't they be here? Do you think they're going to run it better?
The U.K. and Canada have single payer. We're not going for that here. In those two countries they have the government pay for everything.

Private insurance would still live here, and the only restriction on them was "pre-existing conditions" would not disqualify people.
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Old 08-18-2009, 03:33 PM   #118 (permalink)
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The U.K. and Canada have single payer. We're not going for that here. In those two countries they have the government pay for everything.

Private insurance would still live here, and the only restriction on them was "pre-existing conditions" would not disqualify people.
Doesn't the UK have private health insurance companies alongside the NHS?

Of course private insurance would still be involved in American health care. The insurance companies have such a stronghold in the US.

I think it's hard for somebody like me, who's never paid a cent for health care, to fully understand what is going on with the American system right now. I'm simply wondering why the US is the last Western country to have universal health care and yet it is the most powerful country in the world. I have a strong feeling that it's all the far-right conservatives who are afraid that universal health care will turn the US into a socialist nation. That's ridiculous! Canada has had a few conservative federal governments and politicians since the 70's when our health care system was fully implemented, and we are still a democratic country.
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Old 08-18-2009, 04:35 PM   #119 (permalink)
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Its misinformation.

I saw a poll tonight that said the reasons look like this;

1. Cover Illegals
2. Government Takeover
3. Funding Abortions
4. Death Panels

You can watch this whole discussion, and see the poll I mentioned here:

Hardball with Chris Matthews
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Old 08-18-2009, 10:27 PM   #120 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Burning Down View Post
Doesn't the UK have private health insurance companies alongside the NHS?

Of course private insurance would still be involved in American health care. The insurance companies have such a stronghold in the US.

I think it's hard for somebody like me, who's never paid a cent for health care, to fully understand what is going on with the American system right now. I'm simply wondering why the US is the last Western country to have universal health care and yet it is the most powerful country in the world. I have a strong feeling that it's all the far-right conservatives who are afraid that universal health care will turn the US into a socialist nation. That's ridiculous! Canada has had a few conservative federal governments and politicians since the 70's when our health care system was fully implemented, and we are still a democratic country.
How did A cause B here? I'm very confused by your logic.
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